Spark, Fuel, air...no go?? ('84 Vanagon)

[layhew]

HELP!

Long story short, I blew a head gasket a few months ago which lead to the the block being split (crank kept intact). A few new head studs later and the engine is all together back in the van and I'm ready to give her a go. My problem is that when i turn the key i get crank but no kick (1 or 2 backfires). I have checked fuel (can smell it) and spark on multiple occasions and all is fine. Ive timed and re timed again and again following the bentley manual and other forums. My dad and I have even brought the ol timing light out which tells us we are on the money. Ive done a run through the electrics with the voltmeter and all seems fine (alternator, fuel injectors, temp 2 sensor).

The only thing i can think off is the timing (but would the timing light give hints?) or theres a loose wire floating about laughing at us.

Additional info: Have recently cleaned most earths. Recently dropped the fuel tank (went back in no prob). Recently installed a new radiator (could there be a wire in amongst this I've missed?) Im a baby to the vanagon world so excited to hear your responses

[Wellington]

sounds like timing.
Are you certain the cam got installed correctly?
Pop the valve covers, set the engine at TDC and verify.
Turn the engine over by hand and verify each cylinder.

[djkeev]

Timing.

Distributor is set wrong, distributor is installed wrong or spark plug wires are incorrectly installed into the distributor cap (firing order).

Another less easy to fix issue is that when the case was split the Camshaft and Crankshaft timing marks were not lined up, depends who did the work and their level of engine rebuild knowledge.

Good luck! Hope it's easy distributor problems!

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[amwaj]

Unplug both connections at the idle stabilizer unit and plug them into each other, this needs to be done to set the timing properly, it can also be a reason for not starting
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the best way to make a small fortune in life, is to start with a big one, and become afflicted with Vanagon-itis

[layhew]

Thanks for the quick responds guys!

Should have said that when the block was split only one side of it had been taken off (the crank and cam were not touched) we did the split outselves (risky I know, but the odds of finding a vw mechanic here is minimal, most are scared to touch them) odd thing is that when we split it the cam's tdc notch was atleast 90* maybe less out from the tdc on the pulley. Yet this had not been touched and the car ran fine before the split? (Am I imagining things)

I'm certain the wires are set correctly (firing order being 1.4.3.2) but will check tomorrow. How can the distributor be installed/set wrong?
Will also try the idle stabilizer tomorrow. When you say plug them into each other, do you mean just bypass the stabilizer unit and connect the 4 wires (2 each)?

Again, forever grateful!

[amwaj]

Yes connect the plugs together bypassing the idle stabilizer Unit completely
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the best way to make a small fortune in life, is to start with a big one, and become afflicted with Vanagon-itis

[djkeev]

[crazyvwvanman]

Have you done a compression test? After the rockers are off it is common to have one or more pushrods not properly seated and this can keep the engine from starting. A compression test can help identify this and which cylinder(s).

Mark

[layhew]

Quick update..

After a few weeks in Tassie for work, came home to a van with soft hydraulic lifters and a van full off cobwebs. While i was gone my dad had re-timed the valves (2 turns, even tho the bentley says 1.1/2) He decided not to bypass the idle stabiliser. We also reprimed the hydraulic lifters and one has already gone soft is this a problem?

Either way still no go. After a closer look at the rocker arm while timing, we think we have found the culprit. When the TDC notch on the crank is in position, both rocker arms of valve 1 are closed but the dizzy is pointing towards cylinder 3 (so simple) which brings us to think that djkeev was on the money. So back to the garage to re-split the the block and fiddle around with the crankshaft

(we also know we have compression)

[Abscate]

You can just move the wires on the cap if the distributor driveshaft is in the wrong .place. Much easier than splitting the block.
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[Wildthings]

Rotate the wires 180° around the cap and see what happens. The proper fix would be to raise the distributor drive a bit and then rotate the it 180°, but rotating the wires accomplishes the same thing and is easier.

[layhew]

Okay guys, thanks for the advice! Ended up just switching the wires around and as thought our TDC is in the position of cylinder three (wire 1 is where wire 3 traditional is) we have got the van kicking over but it isn't idling and dies out when the pressure in taken off the throttle. My question now is can this affect the way the fuel injectors are throwing fuel in?

[Wildthings]

[layhew]

Okay sweet, could it be as simple as it firing when the cylinder isn't fulling compressed? (Back to timing which we have done 2 turns)

So we've decided to take each spark plug out and feel when the cylinder is fully at TDC and re adjust valves.

Any other idea's are more then welcome!

[buspor63]

I'm stating this from memory, so if I'm wrong, someone please step in. If you're still concerned about the lifters, there's and easy way to set them up.

With valve covers off and spark plugs removed, roll engine up to TDC on #1. A probe should confirm that the piston is on TDC through the plug hole, both rockers should be parallel. If you can push on the bottom of the rocker towards the lifter, that one is soft. Either way, a good starting point is loosen the adjuster all the way out and then turn it in ( 1 ) ? turn? and tighten.

At this point go to #4, #3 and finally #2
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[layhew]

Back with another problemo. We got the van up and running (a few months ago) better then before. I'm pretty sure that the dizzy cap just needed adjusting and a few other tweaks. But now another hurdle has come up. I went to start my van this morning and was met with a van that had crank but no spark. I've had a look at the dizzy and there is spark and power going into it (when we take the plugs off the dizzy cap there is spark.) but when attach a plug to the other end no spark?

It ran perfectly fine yesterday (in 38 degree (c) heat) and has had no other issue before hand. Its almost like someone has cut the power off overnight.

Could it be my plugs? the coil, the hall sensor (4 week old dizzy) or could it be some mysterious earth that decided to have some fun today?

[djkeev]

When testing for spark at the spark plug end, if you only plug it onto a loose spark plug, you need to GROUND the plug to the engine, no ground........
no spark.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[layhew]

The loose spark plug is being grounded, to the water pump i believe. I just removed the plug that lead from the coil to the dizzy and earthed that and had no spark (although with a multimeter it had .8 of power). Decided to replace coil and see what happens.

We've replaced everything else so why not right?

[marshdood]

How is the condition of the receiving end of your hall sensor/sender plug? The one that sits in the distributor. I just replaced a cylinder head on my '85 Vanagon with a 2.1L motor and with all the parts coming off and going on the plug that sits on the distributor which was already cracked finally fell apart, I hoped that this wouldn't be to much of an issue and could just zip tie or gorilla tape it back in place but it ended up causing an intermittent no spark (and no fuel) condition. Even though the three wires were all connected the position of them was causing a connection problem, so I could verify spark one minute and then nothing the next. This was definitely my issue as once I got it positioned correctly it fired right up for the first time since the head went on. There's a good video here http://youtu.be/95PkgSavOCo to test your hall sensor/sender system, this is on an '88 though so not sure if it's the same for an '84 which brings me to my next question, since my van is an '85 with a 2.1L motor from an '87 it looks like to me I need a new distributor that fits '86-'90, does anyone know if there's a chance that I would still have an earlier year distributor? My current one doesn't have the silver can around it. I want to just replace the whole distributor instead of the hall sensor since they're not much more money and possibly easier to find. Thanks
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'85 Westy camper w/2.1L