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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Did a 1965 bug come with seat belts installed? |
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I live in California and I've been reading CVC 27315 about seat belt laws:
(f) Every owner of a motor vehicle, including every owner or
operator of a taxicab, as defined in Section 27908, or a limousine
for hire, operated on a highway shall maintain safety belts in good
working order for the use of occupants of the vehicle.
but then it goes on to say:
This subdivision
does not, however, require installation or maintenance of safety
belts where not required by the laws of the United States applicable
to the vehicle at the time of its initial sale.
I just bought a '65 bug from a private party and it does not have belts installed. I know I could install them and many of you would insist that I do but I'm asking you if I legally need to. TIA
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13848 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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for your safety I would have them. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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gt1953 wrote: |
for your safety I would have them. |
Thanks but that doesn't answer my question. |
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79SuperVert Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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These pages from the '65 owner's manual indicates that belts were not standard equipment because they were "available from any VW workshop". However, by this time, the mounts were already being put in by the factory. In your pictures they don't seem visible unless they are hidden under the headliner. Also keep in mind that at that time they were still putting in mounts for a shoulder belt only (look in the manual at the description of where they go in the car).
So unless the laws of the state in which the car was initially sold required them, the car would not have been sold by the dealer with seat belts unless the customer asked for them. Now you have to find out if that state required them when the car was sold.
_________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.
Last edited by 79SuperVert on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MAYHEM Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Warm and sunny coastal CT
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mine had the tunnel mounts but thats it. No seat belts. _________________ Greg
Model Citizen
johnnypan wrote: |
I digitize myself in the privacy of my own home. |
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ronbdavis Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2009 Posts: 62 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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You need to find out for your state, but I thought this was interesting to add, from http://www.preventioninstitute.org/traffic_seatbelt.html
"In 1966, the Highway Safety Act and the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act were passed, still the most substantial legislation to date regarding automotive industry standards. The legislation authorized the federal government to set and regulate motor vehicle and highway standards, and also created the National Highway Safety Bureau, which later became the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The resulting improvements in auto design were significant and included head rests, energy absorbing steering wheels, shatter-resistant windshields, and mandated installation of seatbelts."
It doesn't say when the changes were required for manufacturing nor any mention of state-specific laws. |
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ronbdavis Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2009 Posts: 62 Location: Virginia
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rm56 Samba Member
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 405 Location: Lincoln, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: belts |
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A 1965 VW did not come with seatbelts. My 64 Bug did not have them but the mount points where put in under the seats so they could be added. The first American factory installed seat belts were in the 1950 Nash Statesman. If your 65 does not have any belts your looking at about $120.00 and a few minutes to install them. Here in Taxifornia where I'm from belts are now mandatory by law. Ever hear the "Click it or Ticket" safety campaign? So your Car did not come with them but the man says you have to have them. Frankly I always wear mine, always. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: belts |
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rm56 wrote: |
A 1965 VW did not come with seatbelts. My 64 Bug did not have them but the mount points where put in under the seats so they could be added. The first American factory installed seat belts were in the 1950 Nash Statesman. If your 65 does not have any belts your looking at about $120.00 and a few minutes to install them. Here in Taxifornia where I'm from belts are now mandatory by law. Ever hear the "Click it or Ticket" safety campaign? So your Car did not come with them but the man says you have to have them. Frankly I always wear mine, always. |
Apparently you didn't read the first post where I quoted the CVC which states that if the car originally didn't come with belts then they are not required. I'm from California too and the reason for this thread is because I have heard of "click it or Ticket". I just want to do the research on the subject in case I ever have to convince "The Man" of the correct interpretation of the law. |
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cutter57 Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004 Posts: 403 Location: SW Washington
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the above. The mounts for the bolts are there, even mounts in the pillar between the door and rear side window, for shoulder strap attachments. When I bought my bug, it had lap belts. I converted to 3-point belts in front (nonretractable). I drive my car almost daily and, considering the relative lack of other safety features present on today's cars, I felt the belts (and my rosary beads) were the most important safety changes I could make. _________________ the enemy of good is better. |
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Jody '71 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2842 Location: Manassas VA
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'd try to find out about antique vehicle requirements in CA, and if you operate one, what is needed to be legal on the road. Like, does CA make you put seat belts in a 1933 Deusenberg? Those cars didn't have them as far as I know. Pull up your carpet and look to see if you've got the holes in the floor pans close to where it meets the heater channel right behind the seat. Can't recall about the '65's, '66's had standard seat belts out of the factory. If standard equipment for the '65's excluded seat belts, you don't need them, unless CA says all vehicles regardless of year manufacture says you do. I may be totally wrong on all this, but it seems to make sense. CA laws may not. I seem to remember our family's new bought from the dealer '65 did have seat belts. It was a red Beetle with the white interior panels, had white seats, red carpet, and the black seat belts with the Wolfsburg crest on the buckles, making me think they were dealer installled. _________________ '66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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myb356 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2004 Posts: 408 Location: bay area california
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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my dad bought a 65 beetle in August of 65 from Atlas VW in San Francisco and it came with seatbelts and he did not order them. The only option he got was the radio. His car came with whitewalls... but he told them he was not going to pay for something he did not order...so they removed the tires and replaced them with blackwalls.... they gave away nothing for free. |
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69judson Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2005 Posts: 200 Location: Los Angeles Thousand Oaks
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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My 65 bought new in San Diego CA came with lap/sholder cobo belts at no additional cost. (non retracting) |
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bill may Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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1967 was 1st year seat belts (lap type in usa) were standard. if you have them installed on older car you have to use them. yes i live in california. prior to 1967 model year if they are there then they were dealership or previous owner installed. don't guess learn the facts. _________________ Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017
1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617 |
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bill may Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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cutter57 wrote: |
I agree with the above. The mounts for the bolts are there, even mounts in the pillar between the door and rear side window, for shoulder strap attachments. When I bought my bug, it had lap belts. I converted to 3-point belts in front (nonretractable). I drive my car almost daily and, considering the relative lack of other safety features present on today's cars, I felt the belts (and my rosary beads) were the most important safety changes I could make. |
Ok guys, I need to point out again that this thread is intended to discuss the legality of whether or not seat belts are "required" in my 1965 bug. I'm not debating the importance of using them for safety sake. That's pretty much a no brainer. I do however believe that riding a motorcycle without a helmet or driving a car without using a seat belt should be up to the operator, not the state. Florida had a helmet law and then rescinded the law if you could show you had adequate medical insurance. |
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AJ. Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2008 Posts: 24 Location: ZooYork
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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i was told a story by the PO of my car that in 66 the seatbelt law went into effect, my car being one of the first here apparently, got GM seatbelts as the VW ones werent at the dealer when it was originally bought.
truth or not, good story or not, i thought id share what i was told. _________________ '56 ragtop (irs pan)(passed inspection 7/09)
'62 ragtop rusty project (sold to a friend)
'66 Java Green, #'s matching Daily Driver
Pics in my gallery of her...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=AJ. |
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MckinneyBugs Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2008 Posts: 51 Location: Mckinney TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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In short you're fine not having or keeping safety belts in your 65.
Mandatory Seat Belt Law for California http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27315.htm
"This subdivision, however, does not require installation or maintenance of safety belts if not required by the laws of the United States applicable to the vehicle at the time of its initial sale."
Federal Standards http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html
"Standard No. 209 - Seat Belt Assemblies - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses (Effective 3-1-67) This standard specifies requirements for seat belt assemblies."
The federal standard is a standard given to the manufacturers not enforced by police, but the california includes a caveat to the date given by the federal standard.
Click or ticket is an awareness/enforcement program funded by NHTSA
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.ce4a601cdfe97fc239d17110cba046a0/ _________________ 63 bug in progress
03 Jetta 1.8T
Previous VW's:
65 Type 1,73 Super, 89 Cabrio |
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desh Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2009 Posts: 429 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: |
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I think the best authority on this would be to speak to your local transport people responsible for regulating and licensing your roads.
If you can get something in writing, or a copy of the relevant legislation, by law that covers this.
Or perhaps the police can help you or direct you to who best to speak with?
I know my 1965 Beetle has never had seat belts mounted in the back, it's August 1964 built. _________________ -----
Kind Regards
Des |
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