IntrepidOverland/Redshiftt - intrepidoverland.com (Chris C.)

[skills@eurocarsplus]

so...

is this guy impossible to get in touch with?

sent a message thru his site and has been crickets.

and don't p/m him....he won't respond
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[jlrftype7]

[E1]

I wrote his site a very respectful letter — (especially considering the circumstances!) — a year ago, when his leaky and ill-designed exhaust nearly burned our van down, melting the overflow tank, the oil filler, and wiring harnesses, and heard absolutely nothing back.

Not his problem nor of any concern, clearly.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[space]

[jimf909]

I've generally had a good response rate from Chris. He is in NM and it is the balloon fiesta and a related bus event so maybe that's taking up all of his time?
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- Jim

[Howesight]

[E1]

All of us have a right to know if *any product* is a safety hazard.

And when my time and money become secondary to any supplier’s time and money, that’s called bad business. Your agreeing or not is inconsequential to business acumen.

I wasn’t inflammatory in my letter, at all, and I asked for nothing beyond a reply so I had some guidance on what to do. And since nothing is what I got, Yes, I’m pissed about that and the similar issues others have told me.

It took me two months to be comfortable with extraordinary heatshield temps, and a year later we’re still not comfortable. Should that be on me, when five minutes of product input might have saved one’s reputation?

Instead, I had to work with Van Cafe on a product they didn’t sell me, and didn’t manufacture. If posters above are only or mostly hearing back when there’s money to be made, Sorry, that’s not customer service.

Perhaps losing your van would be less consequential. Awesome. Try living in one for ten years when things like this shut you down for weeks or months, when a few minutes of a vendor’s time, apparently more precious than your own, would have avoided it. You have no idea, and I won’t apologize if facts that hurt customers are “insulting” to a vendor. You can’t be serious?

There is no valid reason to ignore something this serious, NONE — and I’ve run a one-man operation that made lots of money for others for over 48 years — so please cut the cheerleading.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Howesight]

I am not commenting on your experience with the exhaust system product. Instead, I say there was no reason to insult someone here on the Samba when the dispute is over an allegedly faulty product. If communication fails and you are confident the product was faulty, then sue.

I am not into pissing matches. This forum requires civility and this is all I will say on this topic. While mentioning civility, I am sorry I used sarcasm in responding to your post. I should have left out the sarcasm.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[E1]

I have no issue with you and never have, so no worries there.

I agree on civility here and you’ve surely seen me defend that. But if we feel it’s right to boast about great vendors here — which I routinely do — then equally it’s fair game when things go very wrong.

None of us wants to sue, at least never as a first course of action.

Thanks for the reply.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[skills@eurocarsplus]

wow, that escalated quickly

seeing this went off the rails, I agree with E1... and have no problem with calling out bullshit or singing praises for those who deserve it.

I mean, we do have a dedicated feedback thread for just this reason yet sometimes it's helpful to post in a forum thread other than feedback as people don't look and often, some feedback may be in the wrong spot despite being in the feedback forum

That said, he did reply. I have a couple of questions about the kit.

carry on
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[Californio]

You can call out bullshit all you want, but be aware that in a court of law one would be expected to show how a faulty exhaust melted a coolant tank, and how this was not related to installer error.

My point is that while you're amusing yourself calling out bullshit, you're only in possession of half the facts. Why don't you call bullshit on the person whose exhaust melted his coolant tank? How did that actually happen, pray tell?

Kudos to the OP for not engaging in this.
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1987 Syncro Westy/2.0L Tiico

[E1]

Ummm, I said “overflow tank...” And it’s too bad that you discount a longtime forum supporter with no actual facts.

The bottom nipple got so hot it melted downwards and onto the heatshield, where the plastic oil filler tube was melted alongside. A brand-new engine mount still smokes after a good ascent, but we’ve run enough miles and measured enough temps now that we have more peace of mind — but mostly because of what we learned the hard, long, and unnecessary way.

I’m sure if I posted the video someone would still defend not replying to an emergency email. Someone else acknowledged a similar lack of communication above, I followed up, and now here we are. My email was not an inane product inquiry.

I understand law. And if you’re suggesting I’m lying, this will go on, I have absolutely nothing to gain here.

All I asked for was advice. Big ask? No parts costs, no labor, no apology, nothing. I wanted to know what to try and make it a learning experience and pass that on here.

But I suspect the cause is having more pipes under the heatshield, plus the connectors are known to leak. One friend was told to use an impact wrench to tighten them (!), I’ve double-nutted to good result. I asked others to measure temps of their stock or non-stock exhausts on another thread last year.

All I can conclude is nobody bothered to compare exhaust and heatshield temps from stock. We’re not discussing a gearshift lever, we’re talking about heat risks. I don’t BS here, or anywhere, awesome you seem to assume I’m lying when you haven’t had the problem. Who cares, right? I’ll bet you don’t even have the exhaust.

We later wrapped every inch of the exhaust with DEI wrap after torquing everything to spec. A mechanic installed it per the pdf and I’ve quadruple checked everything.

Coolant temps with or without wrap are normal (160-180 tops, at compression tank). Catalytic temps normal (extremes have been 400 and 800, inlet temps from about 70-150 F cooler than outlet). Plugs are perfect. Running condition is actually great as I said in the other thread, I consider the exhaust a performance upgrade. Mileage 16-18. We’ve lost no oil in over 3,000 miles. Header temps seem normal from an illustration found here. The wrap is now failing in places, regardless heatshield temps are still much higher than any of our two prior vans/engines with stock exhaust and I simply need to know why. And users simply, *always* deserve to know why in cases like this.

Some have spent more time blaming me here than the advice might have taken. My first comment didn’t deserve this, worry about your own van and allow me mine — and our safety. No loss to you — and I’d bet you feel identically.

But go ahead the blame the only one who’s dealt with the consequences. You probably think there’s nobility in that.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Californio]

OK, got it, and I don't not believe you, my point was just that people are quick to bash without hearing from both sides. Which is partly why we have so much conflict on the internet. Enough said, by me at least.
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1987 Syncro Westy/2.0L Tiico

[PDXWesty]

One thing I'm confused about reading here, is why you're quick to blame the exhaust system for the overheating?

That exhaust system has been sold for well over 10 years and has been carried by Rocky Mountain Westy on their site for a long time. I'm sure there are hundreds of installations out there that have been trouble free. If it was such an unsafe system, wouldn't we have heard about these issues numerous times?

Not commenting on the vendor response. Who knows what's happening in someone's personal life. Just mentioning that you're calling a product dangerous when there isn't any history that supports that claim.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[E1]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[E1]

[breakfastofvanagons]

I had a post on here that was removed by forum moderators because it included a photo of Thomas Edison. Unfortunately they removed all the text and not just the photo. That being said its not hard to try have another go at expression.

When I first bought my van, the previous owner had left it sitting for who knows how long in his driveway and all kinds of problems showed up in a system that had many unknown components (unknown to me). When trying to get the vehicle smogged in order to get my new tags for my first ever Westy, the van kept overheating at the smog shop and dumping coolant all over the ground. I remember feeling angry and being especially angry to the smog tech. For one the California smog notice I received required a “Star Smog” which means it had to go to a specialized smog shop for a very strict test and the station I brought it to didn’t see that, was not qualified to do the test, and still charged me for the time. On top of that they seemed to not know what they were doing and took apart various vacuum pieces that were failing and Jerry rigged non VW rubber pieces onto the engine trying to get it to pass. They showed me where they found a ball bearing inside one of the vacuum hoses which they said was somebody previously trying to deceive a smog tech. The long and the short of was just simple failure on their part to get my van to pass and I had to pay for it anyway and I was really really angry at them for a very long time. Eventually as I had got worked by the world of the water boxer I learned that you have to do things the hard way by figuring out how to do them correctly and you have to shell out mega bucks for all working sensors and you really need to get someone that knows how to work on these engines to get it turned correctly so that you can start from a good place of it running correctly with timing and mixture adjusted and cooling system working correctly. I was starting with all kinds of unknown components that did not work well and eventually got it dialed in the way VW intended running super smooth and stock and never had trouble with overheating ever again. But for quite a while the overheating was really a headache. It would seem okay, but then stop and go traffic would make it overheat and dump coolant on the ground. I had faulty sensors, bad timing, old coolant and a clogged up radiator and air bubbles in the system.

Hearing the previous poster blame his overheating on Vanistan / Intrepid Overland’s performance exhaust system reminds of me when I was brand new at water boxers and blamed the smog tech for my problems. The previous poster is blaming the inventor of a finely tuned exhaust system trying to point a finger at someone for something that is not likely to be the cause of overheating. If I installed a K&N air filter and my van overheated is K&N to blame for the problem? I know the feeling of being angry and not being a skilled mechanic and wanting to blame somebody. I was in the wrong just like the guy who blames his overheating on an exhaust system.

Hopefully anyone reading this can take a moment and consider what I think is my most important point: We all love camping and adventure, but when it comes to maintaining a vintage vehicle that is a system of potentially unknown parts, there is no substitute for someone that is a skilled water boxer technician and it worth taking the time to find that person. That person can get your van running like a top and it can be a complicated road to get there, but there is no subsististe for that skilled mechanic. Anyone of us can get mad when something goes wrong but before jumping to conclusions and blaming inventors of aftermarket parts, the hard work needs to be done of finding your nearest skilled water boxer tech who can be logical like Mr. Spock and point out the various components that need to be adjusted to achieve proper tuning. Getting proper tuning is absolutely glorious. If you’re spending time on this forum getting mad at people and pointing fingers but you haven’t gotten to that wonderful state of proper tuning then you’re putting energy in the wrong direction. Just like me, you may feel angry and want to blame somebody, but your anger is likely misdirected. Channel the energy of your anger and find the qualified waterboxer technician who can get your rig humming in a rhythm that’s going to get you stoked. Don’t blame inventors and innovators - just find the tuning technician. And for sure, don’t blame anyone else except yourself for your choice to own a vintage vehicle or your choice to move in and live full time in a vintage vehicle.

All that being said, I am absolutely thrilled to be installing Vanistan’s vent control flap in my heater box system. Scanning through his website and seeing the other things he has for sale shows me that his prices are fair and his innovation is particularly useful. So far in this forum there has been a lot of shaming and blaming which can shut down the creative spark of an innovator. Without that rare person that has the drive to manufacture a truly helpful product and bring it to market where would be?

If you tried contacting someone on their website and didn’t get a response, then try a different way. Try asking questions, try to be less accusatory. Give someone ample time to respond. Let someone gather their thoughts. Give each other the courtesy to express themselves. It can be a weird world with online purchases and digital feedback and not much face to face human contact. We all have to keep it human!
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1983.5 Westy named Vivian the Vanagon

[djkeev]

I will sit on my hands except to say that you cannot negate someones real life experiences with a given product and the distributers/ manufacturers reaction to their very real experiences.
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[skills@eurocarsplus]