Just installed a Bosch WR-1 Hard Start Relay

[dixoncj]

So I just installed a Bosch WR-1, aka WR1, hard start relay on my 86 syncro. I bought it from Impex and followed the simple instructions. Took me about 25 minutes. Now a balky starter - that would not engage about half the time I turned the key - works perfectly every time. I highly recommend one of these before you buy yourself a whole new starter. In fact, it made me realize that perhaps the crappy Autozone starter I installed is in fact, not crappy at all. It won't hurt to install regardless of whether you actually need a new starter or not and will reduce the voltage burden on your ignition switch. And that can't be a bad thing.

[mightyart]

The hard start relays were made for air cooleds, they were supposed to help when hot starting.
The one I put on mine came off when it started blowing fuses because the starter was crap and pulling to much juice.
I won't put one on again, I'll use the relay for something else.
I hate to tell you but all it's doing for you is compensating for a weak link in your system.

[dixoncj]

I'm aware of that. But the difference in amps (I measured) pulled through the switch w/o the relay was in the high 20's. The amps w/the relay was right at 1. I'll take that difference because I figure that no matter what, it will reduce stress on the switch. Two mechanics I know and respect in Calif put them on watercooled's regularly - including an 87 Syncro I once had - and I never had a lick of trouble with it after the job was done.

[mightyart]

The switch costs less then the relay, and the two mechanics just found a way to save them some time.
You're not really fixing anything, it's just a band-aid, and band-aids are made for things that heal themselves.
The starter is the weak point of the system, not the wiring.

[tclark]

[MarkWard]

Don't know about bosch, but Ford Starter Relays have been used for years to solve voltage drops on VW/Audi/Porsche starters. While adding another point of failure, they do provide a short path to energize the stock starter solendoid eliminating most voltage drops. http://www.motorcraft.com/products.do?item=9_8
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[mightyart]

[MarkWard]

If the relay pictured is the Bosch relay, I'd definitely stick to the Ford Motorcraft one.
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[crazyvwvanman]

Any decent $5 relay is all that is needed, 30 amp. That Frod part is for when the main starter current goes through the relay but that is not what the VW starter relay setups are for.

I have had one in one of my Syncros for about 5 years, installed to cure a sometimes balky starter before a trip. Changing the starter in a Syncro with diff lock is much more of a project than in any other VW van. The relay solved the problem at the time and the symptom is still gone.

Add another $5 for wire and ends. The kit shown on the TBD site is a bit of a joke IMHO. No need for a relay holder, just ends on some wires.

Mark

[airkooledchris]

the hot start relays, IMO, are just another point for failure.

take the time needed to be sure your relay is well protected from the elements. I attempted to do the same, but fried 1 every 6 months or so and finally switched all of the wiring back to the stock setup.

the only difference I see is that now when I turn the key, there is a second delay before the starter engages.

(I didn't put the original one on, it was from a PO. not sure why they even bothered, I don't see any side effects of running it in the stock setup - currently)

[vwwestyman]

[mightyart]

How do you trip a relay if the switch is bad?
If you have a bad starter switch you just bypass it and put in a button.

[airkooledchris]

The first time my relay went bad on me it failed while trying to start the van and the starter just kept turning over and over and over, even with the motor already running.

it kept going once I turned the key in the ignition also, just turning turning the starter. thankfully I have easy access to my marine switch to toggle the battery off. (and yes, if you do the hot start relay, carry an extra relay always)

[vwwestyman]

The relay helps when you have a switch that doesn't make real good contact. (Like, in my beetle's case, where the lock half would turn the electrical half most of the way but not full contact). It takes just a few miliamps to trigger the relay, not the 20 or whatever amps was said before. The switch would allow more than enough current to trigger the relay, but not enough to budge the starter.

The only reason I've ever seen a relay stick 'on' is if it has gotten wet. I guess if that ever happens to me, I'll hop out and quickly unplug the relay. I could get to it in a couple seconds, so before no damage would occur (I'm sure we all have cranked the engine for several seconds while troubleshooting at some point.)

And like I said, if the switch failed completely, it would be easy to start it by simply touching the two wires together.

[Dogpilot]

I have to agree the relay is a band aid approach to a rather simple problem. The starters do get old and tired. The other item that gets tired is the wire to the starter itself. Wire on these vans are total crap and tend to have corrosion inside the terminal ends , raising the resistance. Couple that with an old and tired starter, yes it works poorly. I know, the starter to the Syncro is a PIA, but I've taken mine off a several times during my many transmission pulls. If you remove the fixing screws to the vacuum servo and remove the bolts you can rotate the locking mechanism out of the way without removing it.

The other item is many of the original starters are 3/4 hp wile replacements are 1 hp. Made a big difference on mine.

Van Café has a cable to overlay with the origional, $12:

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_780_683/alternator_cable_upgrade.html
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[crazyvwvanman]

Sometimes a band-aid is all that is needed. I don't swat flies with a 12 ga either.

Generic relay wired to raise the voltage at starter solenoid during starting. 5+ year band-aid, $10 and 10 minutes standing or $150 and 1 hour on your back? Diff-lock Syncro!

Mark

[?Waldo?]

I don't think of the added relay as a "band-aid" but rather a cheap, easy and effective way to permanently improve the stock wiring. Running 20 amps an extra 25 feet is silly as is running that extra current through the ignition switch. I haven't heard very many folks criticizing adding headlight relays and yet the benefits and downsides are almost identical.

Andrew

[mightyart]

[crazyvwvanman]

I agree with buying real parts not Azone crap, but at least consider that since a replacement starter did not fix the problem reliably that perhaps something ELSE was playing a role. We have no proof that the Azone replacement is in any way faulty or crappy in this case even though Azone sells some crap. The relay may not be compensating for a crappy starter at all in this case. It may be compensating for some other weakness in the wiring.

Mark

[mightyart]