Rear springs question

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

<<I am not quite following TK's point..>>

Let me cut to the chase.

And I'llmake it real easy so you can grasp this simple design theory.
The stock springs were designed to carry the weight of the vehicle, plus some extra loaded weight when new.

How old is your Van?
How often was it overloaded beyond the springs capacity in it's lifetime?

Springs of any kind have a lifetime limit of how much they can carry, and after that their capacity starts to deminish--they won't carry as much now as they did when new.

Now--instead of replacing the 28 year old, worn out springs, your moving the weight bearing area of ths suspension to a different area, that wasn't ever intended to forecably support any kind of load.

Shocks are made to contol rebound of the springs--not support the load of the Van, plus anything extra.

Now, tell me how difficult is this plain jane concept to digest?

The air bags will stiffen up the spings--not give you much extra ride height.
The ride height is controlled by the length of the spring, as well as the diameter of the coils.

If the spring in the Vanagon was 3 ft. tall, the Air Lift bag would be that long too.

All's it's intended job is to stiffen up a worn out spring to close to it's orginal torsional support charactoristics.
Not jack anything up.

If you wnt more ride height get some new longer, bigger diameter coil springs.

Installing the load leveler shocks is a cheap shot at correcting what really is worn out in your old Van with shot suspension parts.

Is this too complicated to get a good grasp on?
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject:

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject:

and don't compare those little puffy beach toys to the air bags in trucks and buses. I was in a bus garage today and the air bags in the parts room are nothing like those little pink water-wing pillow soccer ball dollar store novelties. Those big black Goodyear and Firestone bags fail, thats why we have a parts room full of them, and thats why a big bus has 6 of them supporting its rear suspension.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject:

air bags for a vanagon,
if you want to talk about truck and bus air bags these are the bags you should be looking at . . .

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

I wans't comparing a Mack,Hendrickson, or New Way air ride set up to an light automotive air bag.

I said they basicly do the same thing.

Except the HD air bag suspension is set up to support 120,000 lbs on a class 8 truck.

A Bus is a lightweight suspension system in comparison, something drawn up by GM or Flixable.

Automtive Air bags support weight and / or will suppliment a coil spring.
Different sized vehicles demand different sized air bags.

Seeing as a Vanagon will NEVER be supporting even close to 73,280 lbs ( the legal load on any secondary highway) ,plus the truck or bus bags would't even come close to fitting.

I brought up Firestone or Goodyear to explain an air ride suspenion system-- (which by the way is far superior to any spring set up) and for nothing else.

Why don't them GM Buses just toss the air bags and run magumbo coil over shocks to support the weight?

Simple answer--because it won't work.

There is one C at work with 500 k on the odometr--it's on a 2 axle & 3 axle low boy.

It's had one set of bags since 1998 and thay are Firestones.

The Talbert low boys both have bags too-and have never needed servicing--the trailer's are 15 years old.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject:

show me a commercial vehicle with both bags and springs on the same axle
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

<<show me a commercial vehicle with both bags and springs on the same axle.>>

Mack 44,000 lbs rears, have leafs & bags.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject:

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

Show me any vehicle that uses coil over shocks in leu of a spring or air bag in the rear as a primary suspension unit.

Commercial, or private.
Car or truck.

Just one will do.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject:

_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

<<and do they stuff the bags in between the leafs of the springs?>>

You should know better what the placement of the air bags is--being knowledgeable all about air ride.

The springs pivot off of the center of the trunion box, and the air ride mounts are at the ends of the springs.

I'm talking twin screw.

Ok--I've answered you question--now answer mine.

Name one vehicle that has coil over's as a primary source of REAR suspension.
And where The Coil springs are secondary.

Don't go tossing in that Tin Indian go fast toilet--we're talking class 8 or better right now.

That ride is a custom built fiberglass / kevlar shit box--it don't count.

I'm talking production stuff.

I'll wait here.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject:

H&R Transit Connect Project 2010 Ford Transit Connect
The new Ford Transit Connect, a European delivery van, is coming to the U.S. in early 2009. Recognizing a need for a reliable, light-duty hauling vehicle, Ford is responding with the Transit Connect—reporting a remarkable 143 cubic feet of storage space and ranked Europe’s most reliable van by Fleet News in 2007. The Transit Connect has been lowered 3” in the front / 4” in the rear and is complimented by custom 3-piece O.Z. Superleggera III 19” wheels and Pirelli tires for an aggressive street look. Piloti Shoes provided their expertise to create a unique interior using the finest materials and workmanship. With its utilitarian, architectural look, it is a great vehicle to personalize with custom components—which is exactly what we’ve done. Check it out.
Specifications.
Base Vehicle  :: 2010 Ford Transit Connect  :: 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine  :: four-speed automatic transmission
Powertrain  :: FS Werks 2.5” Stainless cat-back exhaust system  :: Motul Lubricants
Suspension  :: H&R Custom Street Performance Coil Overs  :: H&R 3mm TRAK+ Wheel Spacers  :: FS Werks Race Camber Plates
Wheels & Tires  :: O.Z. Superleggera III with bright silver centers 19x8 custom front wheels  :: O.Z. Superleggera III with bright silver centers 19x9 custom rear wheels  :: Pirelli 225/35x19 PZero Rosso front tires  :: Pirelli 265/30x19 PZero Rosso rear tires
Exterior  :: Ford Heritage Racing Blue custom paint  :: Ford DNA racing stripe
Interior  :: Piloti driving shoes athletically inspired interior  :: GTS Classics ST seats  :: Scosche 10” subwoofers  :: Scosche amplifiers  :: Scosche wiring  :: Custom speaker enclosures
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

I knew you wouldn't come up with anything, because there is no such suspension system.

A VANAGON IS DESIGNED TO SUSPEND ITSELF ON 4 COIL SPRINGS,ONE ON EACK CORNER, DAMPENED BY 4 SHOCK ABOSORBER'S, ONE ON EACH CORNER.

It was never intended to support or suspend the vehicle with the shocks only.

Which is exactly what is suggestewd here.

it isn't correct, and never will be.

first replace the worn out springs in the antique vehicle, tnen add the extra support if nesecessary for the large overload.

This is the right way to do this--not the opposite way of depending on a shock to do a worn out springs work.

Your FOMCo has coil over's--like struts.

It Don't even come close to the parrameter's of this discussion.

Show me Coil Over Shocks AS A PRIMARY SUSPENSION UNIT, WITH COIL SPRINGS AS A SECONDARY SUSPENSION AFTERTHOUGHT AS YOUR IMPLICATING.

IT DON'T EXIST.

A Vanagon does not have a strut suspension.Never has, never will.

So delete the strut theory right out this deabate.
It isn't applicable.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:46 pm Post subject:

the only support for the vehicle, all four corners

http://www.hrsprings.com/products/coil-overs/
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

240Gordy · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:00 am Post subject:

Toyota tundra racing coil-overs
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

240Gordy · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:04 am Post subject:

another Bilstein product for Ford F-150

BILSTEIN
13.0" ALU 2.5" COILOVER F 130/72 (springs sold separately)

picture may not exactly match actual product
Part #: A410132010
SAP Part #: A410132010

Position: Front
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

So What?

You got some pictures of primary suspension Struts there.

Where's the secondary coil spings that they support?

Where's the picture or poop sheet of the Vanagon with Struts for a Primary suspension system, and coil springs as a back up?

An F-150 ain't no Vanagon.
A Tundra ain't no Vanagon.
A 1/4 mile Tin Indian ain't no Vanagon.

This is all BS, and is skirting the issue.

You haven't answered or came up with one iota of a legitamate example.

Your running the car lot inventory here , and haven't come up with the right answer yet.

Why don't you flash some Lamborginni suspension system's--which won't mean a tinker's dam here---

Come up with a Vanagon strut suspension system that VW installed--with a coil back up.

Then your gonna get close anyway.

I'll take a nap and take a look tomorrow what kinda propagada you searched for--and posted.
_________________
T.K.

240Gordy · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:15 am Post subject:

No, they are not struts, they are shocks with or designed for coil-over springs. There are no secondary springs for them to support, that is the whole system.

Go to the H&R site or the Bilstein site or the Strange Engineering site and read up on it. There is a whole wide world out there.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR


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