Brake line residual valve installation.

Glasser

OK I went out and bought some. I'm getting conflicting stories as to where exactly you install them.

These are what I have ....

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D16%2D3156

I have read here you put them on the line you want to "restrict". I want more back braking so I will put two of them on the front, one on each side.

In the description (of the link) it says "valve is used to keep a minimum constant line pressure to help eliminate excessive pedal travel and create a much firmer and more responsive pedal feel."
To me this sounds like I will put a single valve on the rear to get the brakes to work quicker. Will holding a line pressure not make the brakes drag? I'm using the 10PSI valve not the 2PSI valve. As I read it 2PSI is for a disk set up.
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My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008

kitb · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:10 am Post subject:

i put the valve on each line, front and back, right at the m.c
I also put a proprortioning valve so I could turn down the front brakes,
everything works good, i reccommend this instal

FormerBug · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject:

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will pipe in, but those don't restrict braking pressure. What those do, is prevent complete pressure release when you take your foot off the brake. They keep a little bit of pressure in the line(s) so as to reduce pedal travel and keep the pads/shoes closer to their contact surface. Yes, the brake shoes/pads will 'react' sooner, but there'll be no difference in braking ability front/rear.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you're locking the fronts before full braking potential is reached, or you can just tell that the rears just aren't working well enough. If you want to add more rear brake to her, you're going to need to get a proportioning valve that varies brake pressure (when you foot is on the brake) in either the front or rear circuit. Unfortunately, most are installed in the rear circuit to actually reduce pressure and prevent lockup. Since a proportioning valve doesn't do anything to increase braking pressure, you'll need to install it in line with the front brakes to adjust their braking pressure, thus balancing front/rear as you wish. You can imagine how that might be problematic.

http://www.cip1.ca/SearchResults.asp?Search=proportioning+valve

Something like this.

bim55 · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject:

Those will not help you with adding more rear brake balance, see post above. The big tire, small tire buggy needs more pressure to the back side. You can search for this topic on this site, it's been covered before.

The old school, no money fix is to swap the wheel cylinders front to rear.

Otherwise you can throw as much money at this as youd like, proportioning valve, disc brakes, the list is endless.

Good luck on your search.
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Glasser · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys.

Yes, trying to back the front off . I can't lock the rears up in dirt at all with a full panic stop. Hmm just thinking I haven't checked the rears for adjustment, think I'll do that first. When I first got the buggy running with out the body on all 4 locked up at the same time on dirt so something has changed.

Well that sucks. I was sold the valves with the understanding that it will work.
I already tried the wheel cylinder swap but it can not be done with my configuration. IRS with wide five drums, The ribs on my aftermarket drums hit the over sized cylinders in the back and knock the rubber off the wheel cylinders. I suppose I could grind the ribs off but they are probably there for a reason (strength).

Looks like I'm going the proportioning valve route....... if the adjustment doesn't work.
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Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008

Michael B · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:10 am Post subject:

Has anyone tried to reduce the brake pad area for the front? Maybe cut groves into the front brake pads, and thus reducing contact area and brake force.

I have a similar problem with my VW Thing (front disk brakes) and have thought about different ways to reduce the brake force. I just might work on cutting groves into the pads and see how it works.

Make sure to use a vacuum or fan to blow the dust away from anyone and yourself.

Michael

vw (o\!/o) nut · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:43 am Post subject:

When I raced 1-1600 many years ago, we would reduce front braking by removing part of the frictional material.
Just cut down to the metal with a hack saw and chisel off the shaded area.
Worked great for us.

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Glasser · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:48 am Post subject:

How was longevity???
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Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008

Dale M. · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:09 am Post subject:

You want a proportioning valve not a residual valve...

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/63020/10002/-1

Or something similar....

Just be sure it has METRIC connectors that fit your brake lines...

Another option if you are using drum brakes in rear is going to TYPE III rear brakes. They are 10x2 inch vs 9x1.5 inch as Type I and are direct bolt on... If you get early drums they are wide five, later drums are 4 lug..

Dale.
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vw (o\!/o) nut · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:16 am Post subject:

Markiespud · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:43 am Post subject:

Guys
If I am right then a valve will only reduce pressure to the rears and not restrict front pressure, you would need to fit adjustable valves to both front brake lines which somehow wouldn't appeal to me.
I would look at possibly machining the rear drums to get the cylinders to fit.
Only my two cents........... Rolling Eyes

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject:

Turn the brakes around on the MC.

The front cylinder of the two stage puts out more PSI because it has more area. The rear cylinder in the two stage puts out less pressure because it has less area than the front with the front plunger rod going through it.

You will have more pressure going to the rear and less pressure going to the front. I did this on a rail buggy many years ago and it helped 10 fold in the brake bias. all four would just about lock at the same peddle pressure on flat ground, dirt.
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lostinbaja · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject:

Use a proportioning valve (one) come out of the master cylinder with one line into the Proportioning valve out of the proportioning valve and into a "T" . From the "T" to the wheel cylinders. It works great!
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vw (o\!/o) nut · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject:

Dale M. · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:

Dale M. · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject:

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject:

FormerBug · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject:

Glasser, what'd you end up doing here? I'm curious as to how you worked this out, if at all.

Glasser · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject:

Haven't had time to do anything yet. And it sounds like one more blast of snow is coming this weekend Sad

It wont last long.

I'm going to check the rear brake adjustment first, then I guess I'll have to make a decision on what I will try next.

Thanks to all that posted so far.
_________________
Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008

vincent9993 · Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:12 am Post subject:


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