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Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

A friend of mine got some heads from a machine shop and they dont look like a regular heads.

First of all they only have 6 main fins compared to 8 on a standard head, and NO they are not cut off as they still have the "ears" on the bottom fin.

Second they only have 35cc chambers and a VERY shallow depth from the bottom fin to the sealing surface.

Third they have a wierd horizantal threaded 8mm hole on the #1 or #4 piston on the SIDE of the head right above the hole for the valve cover bail

Fourth a strange part number with additional numbers and NO letter designation. 040 101 375 16

They have stock size valves 35x32 but have long reach plug threads. He was told they are regular heads but I say no way. Someone told him they are early replacement FI heads but do not have the larger valve stem. They have a BR stamping in the spring area so they look like Brazil heads and also have REALLY small washer bosses so that regular 8mm head stud washers barely fit. There is NO WAY that these heads can use a 10mm head stud!! Intake ports look like later 041 style with no valve stem boss but have early small exhaust ports. They also have 041 full bottom fin with no full middle fin when looking down from the intake port side.

Are these industrial heads? Early factory racing heads for super high compression? Aircraft??

He is building a 74x90 engine and when setting the deck height and comression ratio the amount of shims needed is huge to compensate for the super small chamber size. He is unable to use copper head gaskets due to the almost non exsistant cylinder seating area. If he uses a .060 copper head gasket the cylinder will not locate in the head correctly even after torque. WTF???
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't say I've ever seen heads that look quite like you describe. Sounds like something to take some photos of and post in the Gallery for others to reference in the future. No way they could have been Bug FI heads, those had smaller valves.

So with that shallow depth, does that mean no room for a "step cut" to increase the combustion chamber size?

I just Googled that head part/casting number and came up with this:

http://www.partssave.com/item.cfm?id=350155593015

It's an ad for a matched head and two pistons/cylinders, I'll quote the ad:

"FROM A MEXICAN BUILT NEW LONG BLOCK. THEY ARE USEABLE ONLY WITH THE MEXICAN BUILT LONG BLOCKS AS THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STYLE PISTON AND CYLINDERS AND COMBUSTION CHAMBERS. HEAD NUMBER--040 101 375 16--PISTON AND CYLINDERS ARE DISHED VW"

Hope that info is of some use...
-Andy
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are alcohol heads. In stock form, this 1600 had a CR of 10.5:1.

Don't even think about using them on a gas engine. Less fins means they will overheat. Super high compression means they will ping badly.
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
I can't say I've ever seen heads that look quite like you describe. Sounds like something to take some photos of and post in the Gallery for others to reference in the future.

So with that shallow depth, does that mean no room for a "step cut" to increase the combustion chamber size?

"FROM A MEXICAN BUILT NEW LONG BLOCK. THEY ARE USEABLE ONLY WITH THE MEXICAN BUILT LONG BLOCKS AS THEY HAVE DIFFERENT STYLE PISTON AND CYLINDERS AND COMBUSTION CHAMBERS. HEAD NUMBER--040 101 375 16--PISTON AND CYLINDERS ARE DISHED VW"

Hope that info is of some use...
-Andy


I will take pics as soon as possible.

No definately no room for a step cut.

Yes it helped a lot, I wonder why it didnt come up when I searched?



Bruce wrote:
Those are alcohol heads. In stock form, this 1600 had a CR of 10.5:1.

Don't even think about using them on a gas engine. Less fins means they will overheat. Super high compression means they will ping badly.


Perfect. Just what the doctor ordered.

BTW do you samba guys ever sleep?????
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turboblue
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:
Those are alcohol heads. In stock form, this 1600 had a CR of 10.5:1.

Don't even think about using them on a gas engine. Less fins means they will overheat. Super high compression means they will ping badly.


South American spec head Bruce?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the dish in them pistons Shocked

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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

derluftwagen wrote:
A friend of mine got some heads from a machine shop and they dont look like a regular heads.

First of all they only have 6 main fins compared to 8 on a standard head, and NO they are not cut off as they still have the "ears" on the bottom fin.

Second they only have 35cc chambers and a VERY shallow depth from the bottom fin to the sealing surface.

Third they have a wierd horizantal threaded 8mm hole on the #1 or #4 piston on the SIDE of the head right above the hole for the valve cover bail

Fourth a strange part number with additional numbers and NO letter designation. 040 101 375 16

They have stock size valves 35x32 but have long reach plug threads. He was told they are regular heads but I say no way. Someone told him they are early replacement FI heads but do not have the larger valve stem. They have a BR stamping in the spring area so they look like Brazil heads and also have REALLY small washer bosses so that regular 8mm head stud washers barely fit. There is NO WAY that these heads can use a 10mm head stud!! Intake ports look like later 041 style with no valve stem boss but have early small exhaust ports. They also have 041 full bottom fin with no full middle fin when looking down from the intake port side.

Are these industrial heads? Early factory racing heads for super high compression? Aircraft??

He is building a 74x90 engine and when setting the deck height and comression ratio the amount of shims needed is huge to compensate for the super small chamber size. He is unable to use copper head gaskets due to the almost non exsistant cylinder seating area. If he uses a .060 copper head gasket the cylinder will not locate in the head correctly even after torque. WTF???


I have the exact same set of heads but mine have the 8 cooling fins, 32 X 35.5 vlaves and the boss is there for the horizontal threaded hole, but it is not threaded.

My chamber volumn is no where near that small, (have not cc'ed them yet, but look real cloase to my stock 041 head volumn).

I am going to use them on my 78 X 88 build (1898).
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vwfanatic67
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just acquired the exact heads that you are referring to. Did any one figure out the story on them.
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which ones, the 6 fin with the high compression small chambers or the 8 fin with the larger chambers?
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 fins small chambers
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say go with what Bruce said... an engine set up to run alcohol.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do some chamber work&piston work & use them.
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modok
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anybody crazy enough to use them with 94mm WBX pistons and rods Very Happy
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I would add this thread for more info on these heads

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6863065#6863065
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R-Baja
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot VWs Magazine did a cylinder head buyers guide in one of their issues, December 2010, and it shows the 6 fin head made in Brazil with 35x32.5 valves and high compression combustion chambers. Original VW/AUDI casting.

Last edited by R-Baja on Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlteWagen, did you ever compile a photo thread of all the various cylinder heads?
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Jacco Verveer Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

was hoping to have these as spare but didnot look at the chambers:)

no way off using these ? because i now need heads Sad

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

karmanniak wrote:
was hoping to have these as spare but didnot look at the chambers:)

no way off using these ? because i now need heads Sad


Those are heads for the engine nicknamed "Tork", introduced after 1984 in Brazil. There were ethanol, gasoline, fuel injected and front mounted versions.
They were designed to be used with matching cylinders/pistons, the cylinders have more fins to compensate the only 6 fins on the heads.

The table below show the dimensions, I don't know if it will fit the regular P/Cs

(The "C" measure is 94mm vs 93.81mm on regular cylinders. The "L" measure is 138.60 or 139.40mm vs 136.70mm on regular.)

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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

other than small valves and rust on the seats whats rong?do they use a longer valve or is the engine just narrower?/head shorter?
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Strange Cylinder Head Question PLEASE HELP Reply with quote

Maybe someone could dish some pistons in the shape of the combustion chamber and they could be used? Not sure if there is a piston with a thick enough top to make that work or not. Maybe one of the machinists could jump in on that. Just an idea.
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