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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

human compass wrote:
common ground on any of the speakers will cause poor sound quality in all the speakers as the modern head unit is not designed to use a common ground. unfortunately you need to run all new speaker wire....


2X on this - make sure you have 4 wires running back, you cannot tie the " - " wires together on most stereos, they are actually not grounds and this will make your amplifier act wierd.
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fraggle00
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shepherdsond wrote:
Which Kenwood deck did you get?


This one, the KDC-X897. Front and Rear USB inputs and an audio jack with remote. I'm going to wire the rear input over to the glovebox and hide a SD card reader in there so I can leave 4GB of music online.


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113KDCX897/Kenwood-Excelon-KDC-X897.html
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fraggle00
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running_Man wrote:
Question for you audiophiles out there...I just installed a new Pioneer headunit and replaced the front speakers with the 4" Pioneers that GW sells. I used butt connectors to wire the headunit and spakers. Now the speakers, both front and back, distort/crackle really bad when turn the volume up to normal listening level.

So far, I've tried switching the polarity on the speakers, and double checking my wiring, but the distortion continues and the wiring looks correct.

I'm wondering what else it could be? Underpowered? I know an amplifier will help with distortion, but even the stock rear speakers are distorting badly right now. What should the voltage be at from the constant with the key in and engine running? I also have heard that keeping the common ground to the rear speakers can cause distortion, so that's a possibility. But why would the front speakers be so bad too?

Thanks for the help!


Make sure the unit is well grounded. It may not be delivering the power it should be capable of.
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Mountain1.8t
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dampcamper wrote:
human compass wrote:
common ground on any of the speakers will cause poor sound quality in all the speakers as the modern head unit is not designed to use a common ground. unfortunately you need to run all new speaker wire....


2X on this - make sure you have 4 wires running back, you cannot tie the " - " wires together on most stereos, they are actually not grounds and this will make your amplifier act wierd.


Thanks guys! That was exactly it. Now I just have to run a 4th wire to the rears.
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rotaecho
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1982 Vanagon, where the front doors only have 4" in the bottom location.

I recently ordered some Focal PC100 4". I don't have the stock grills, but could the focal grills be used? Also, were there any gottcha's that you would like to share?Smile

Thanks!

Crankey wrote:
has anyone installed 3 way components ?

I was going to go w/ 4" 2 way Focal in the stock location for now and trade up to 3 way comps later...6" woof down low on the door, 4" mid in the stock location and tweeters on the dash...probably the base model Focal comps.

I've mounted a 5/8" thick MDF plate in the stock location on the door. the door-panel is still flat. but I haven't cut speaker holes in the MDF yet.

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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rotaecho wrote:
I have a 1982 Vanagon, where the front doors only have 4" in the bottom location.

I recently ordered some Focal PC100 4". I don't have the stock grills, but could the focal grills be used? Also, were there any gottcha's that you would like to share?Smile

Thanks!

Well, the PO of my van proved you can fit 6.5" speakers down there, it just takes a metal blade in a saber saw. Recommended? Meh...at least I get some sort of bass out of them. I made a metal brace to bridge across the gap at the top of the hole since the sheet metal is missing, there is a gap. But now I can screw the top of the speaker into solid metal instead of the door card.
You can use any grills you want but they are pretty vulnerable to feet down there. I used West Marine "marine grade" speakers (their cheaper ones, integral solid plastic grill and a plastic cone so when water gets down there it won't dissolve the speaker): http://www.westmarine.com/west-marine--two-way-flush-mount-speakers--P003_096_002_007 .
Like this:
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Last edited by Dampcamper on Mon May 05, 2014 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LemonCove
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rotaecho wrote:
I have a 1982 Vanagon, where the front doors only have 4" in the bottom location.

I recently ordered some Focal PC100 4". I don't have the stock grills, but could the focal grills be used?


Not sure about the 82 setup. If there's no interference with the dash (like my 88 ) it should be easy.

In my 88, I mounted 5" Focals (a different model) with stock grilles in the stock location, but they required a bit of modification. The ones you got look like the tweeter sticks out fairly high, so you may want to mount the speaker recessed in the door, rather than on the panel (what I did).

I have a Picasa site that details my install:
https://picasaweb.google.com/13VelosdeRemi/WestyVanagonStereoInstall
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nblaauw
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

human compass wrote:
common ground on any of the speakers will cause poor sound quality in all the speakers as the modern head unit is not designed to use a common ground. unfortunately you need to run all new speaker wire....


What' the fix here? I put in new speakers and head unit and am getting crackling as well. Was planning on running new wire and installing a sub at same time but sounds like I may need to redo the grounds on stereo...is that correct?
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nblaauw wrote:
human compass wrote:
common ground on any of the speakers will cause poor sound quality in all the speakers as the modern head unit is not designed to use a common ground. unfortunately you need to run all new speaker wire....


What' the fix here? I put in new speakers and head unit and am getting crackling as well. Was planning on running new wire and installing a sub at same time but sounds like I may need to redo the grounds on stereo...is that correct?


The "-" speaker leads on modern stereos are *not* ground and must *not* be tied together or to ground. You need to run 2 separate wires to each speaker. I'm sure I'll start another debate here on "the best wire to use" but if you're running smallish speakers in back without a big-ass booster amp, #18 wire should be adequate for the rear speakers. You might want bigger wire to your sub speaker.
Make sure and use stranded wire, solid wire will flex/vibrate and break. For the basic 50-60 watt in-car sound system (just a deck with no booster amp) you don't need to go crazy with wire (flat "extension cord/zip cord is OK) but make sure it's protected against sharp sheet metal edges so it doesn't short out from having the insulation sawed through as you're shakin' down the road. I use "marine wire", it looks kind of like the Romex wire you use in a house but is made with finely stranded wire so is super-flexible and has a jacket over it.
A technical explanation link on the amplifier output: http://www.profusionplc.com/images/application%20notes/an12.pdf
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nblaauw
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dampcamper wrote:

The "-" speaker leads on modern stereos are *not* ground and must *not* be tied together or to ground. You need to run 2 separate wires to each speaker. I'm sure I'll start another debate here on "the best wire to use" but if you're running smallish speakers in back without a big-ass booster amp, #18 wire should be adequate for the rear speakers. You might want bigger wire to your sub speaker.
Make sure and use stranded wire, solid wire will flex/vibrate and break. For the basic 50-60 watt in-car sound system (just a deck with no booster amp) you don't need to go crazy with wire (flat "extension cord/zip cord is OK) but make sure it's protected against sharp sheet metal edges so it doesn't short out from having the insulation sawed through as you're shakin' down the road. I use "marine wire", it looks kind of like the Romex wire you use in a house but is made with finely stranded wire so is super-flexible and has a jacket over it.
A technical explanation link on the amplifier output: http://www.profusionplc.com/images/application%20notes/an12.pdf


Thanks that's super helpful. I just ordered the Focal mentioned above and will get new wire and install all this week. Here's hoping for some good sound!
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nblaauw
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I ran the new 16ga wire and while it did help a bit I still have distortion. Talked to a car stereo shop and they sold me some "bass blockers" to install in the positive line to stop all the low frequency stuff. While it does achieve the reduction in distortion the speakers are now very low. Is this capacitor blocking too much? Are there different ratings for these?
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Dampcamper
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nblaauw wrote:
So I ran the new 16ga wire and while it did help a bit I still have distortion. Talked to a car stereo shop and they sold me some "bass blockers" to install in the positive line to stop all the low frequency stuff. While it does achieve the reduction in distortion the speakers are now very low. Is this capacitor blocking too much? Are there different ratings for these?

Are you talking about peak distortion, where at a lower volume it sounds clean but when you crank it it sounds like it's coming through a kazoo?
This would be from exceeding the ratings on something in your sound chain (you know the "weak link" theory?). I don't know what SPL you are expecting, not judging just asking? Bass blockers will indeed roll off the lows - OK if you have a subwoofer separately to fill in the missing lows.
If you do the sub/amp thing, make sure and use heavy power leads, this is more important than heavy speaker leads.
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nblaauw
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dampcamper wrote:
Are you talking about peak distortion, where at a lower volume it sounds clean but when you crank it it sounds like it's coming through a kazoo?


YES

Dampcamper wrote:
This would be from exceeding the ratings on something in your sound chain (you know the "weak link" theory?). I don't know what SPL you are expecting, not judging just asking?


I don't know what SPL even is!

Dampcamper wrote:
Bass blockers will indeed roll off the lows - OK if you have a subwoofer separately to fill in the missing lows.
If you do the sub/amp thing, make sure and use heavy power leads, this is more important than heavy speaker leads.


So with the bass blockers it was all low or high...sounded shitty even with trble turned down. I now have tried a different head unit with a HPF and while that kinda works the sound is pretty bad. What do I need not to lose mids? Do i need something between the 4"ers and the sw? Like 6x9's, etc? Should I be running an amp for more control? I'd really like some decent sound for Oprah(my van) but this is turning into quite the process. Any help is appreciated...
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Jake59
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought (2) pair of Rockford Fosgate Prime R14X2 a 4" co-axial speakers at $50 / pair not a bank buster.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

They just drop in to the old locations with only very minor mods to the crank handles
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

and a small notch cut to the trim on the rear passenger side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I like the grills they are simple black similar to the old OEM units.

Note, as I was leaving the store I mentioned that I had some tapping feedback from the ignition. They showed me a power isolator but said “go back and check your ground wires to the head unit and power amp”, which I did. By running a fresh 10g ground wire from chasse to play-head to power amp and ending back to the body frame (similar to how one would ground out the heads on the engine). Ticking disapeared, just nice and clean music form the old ADS 320's under my bench seat.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:29 pm    Post subject: powering the CD player Reply with quote

My original intent was to have the CD powered without turning on the ignition switch. Because the '87 Vanagon does not have have an ACC position I have attempted to power the CD player from another source. My first attempt ended up with anomalies and I have since undone the first attempt and returned to OG wiring.

My second attempt to power the CD player constantly was to wire it to an unswitched source. The cigarette lighter has constant power and I used a DC plug into the lighter and made a wire for the CD player. I cut the OG wire and connected the cigarette lighter wire and expected to have a CD player that would operate independent of the ignition switch. There is 12V at the end of the cigarette lighter wire. BUT, even with power from the cigarette lighter, the CD player will only operate with the ignition switch in the ON position. WTF

I put M&F connectors on the cut wire and when connected, restoring the OG circuit, the CD player operates only with the ignition switch in the ON position, as was designed.

I've looked at the Bentley 97.196, but ...

The explanation would seem to be that the radio ground is some how connected to the ignition switch.
Does the CD player have a switched ground like a bay window horn?

How do you provide constant power to the CD player?

Aloha
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luVWagn
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: powering the CD player Reply with quote

Tom Powell wrote:
My original intent was to have the CD powered without turning on the ignition switch. Because the '87 Vanagon does not have have an ACC position I have attempted to power the CD player from another source. My first attempt ended up with anomalies and I have since undone the first attempt and returned to OG wiring.

My second attempt to power the CD player constantly was to wire it to an unswitched source. The cigarette lighter has constant power and I used a DC plug into the lighter and made a wire for the CD player. I cut the OG wire and connected the cigarette lighter wire and expected to have a CD player that would operate independent of the ignition switch. There is 12V at the end of the cigarette lighter wire. BUT, even with power from the cigarette lighter, the CD player will only operate with the ignition switch in the ON position. WTF

I put M&F connectors on the cut wire and when connected, restoring the OG circuit, the CD player operates only with the ignition switch in the ON position, as was designed.

I've looked at the Bentley 97.196, but ...

The explanation would seem to be that the radio ground is some how connected to the ignition switch.
Does the CD player have a switched ground like a bay window horn?

How do you provide constant power to the CD player?

Aloha
tp

Did you get the switched power and constant power backwards? I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish via the cigarette lighter exactly?

What you should do is either use the 1st ON position of a stock foglight switch as your switched (trigger) power, or use a small toggle switch mounted on your dash. Then power to the head-unit would come from another (battery connected, and fused) source - unswitched, and not tied to the ignition switch.

This way, you can be camped, you don't need your keys in, and you can use the stereo. But at the same time, you can flick the foglight or toggle switch, and the stereo will stop being a current draw.

make sense?
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: powering the CD player Reply with quote

luVWagn wrote:
Tom Powell wrote:
My original intent was to have the CD powered without turning on the ignition switch. Because the '87 Vanagon does not have have an ACC position I have attempted to power the CD player from another source. My first attempt ended up with anomalies and I have since undone the first attempt and returned to OG wiring.

My second attempt to power the CD player constantly was to wire it to an unswitched source. The cigarette lighter has constant power and I used a DC plug into the lighter and made a wire for the CD player. I cut the OG wire and connected the cigarette lighter wire and expected to have a CD player that would operate independent of the ignition switch. There is 12V at the end of the cigarette lighter wire. BUT, even with power from the cigarette lighter, the CD player will only operate with the ignition switch in the ON position. WTF

I put M&F connectors on the cut wire and when connected, restoring the OG circuit, the CD player operates only with the ignition switch in the ON position, as was designed.

I've looked at the Bentley 97.196, but ...

The explanation would seem to be that the radio ground is some how connected to the ignition switch.
Does the CD player have a switched ground like a bay window horn?

How do you provide constant power to the CD player?

Aloha
tp

Did you get the switched power and constant power backwards? I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish via the cigarette lighter exactly?

What you should do is either use the 1st ON position of a stock foglight switch as your switched (trigger) power, or use a small toggle switch mounted on your dash. Then power to the head-unit would come from another (battery connected, and fused) source - unswitched, and not tied to the ignition switch.

This way, you can be camped, you don't need your keys in, and you can use the stereo. But at the same time, you can flick the foglight or toggle switch, and the stereo will stop being a current draw.

make sense?


All that makes sense and that is what I'm trying to accomplish.
Didn't get the switched and unswitched power backwards. For either, the ignition switch must be in the ON position for the unit to work.
Trying to get an unswitched power source for the CD player for camping and sleeping. I have a remote to turn it off as I enter slumberland.
The cigarette lighter is an unswitched power source and the plug or unplug is the same as a switch.

The CD player is a Pioneer DEH-P3700MP and I'll be emailing Crutchfield to see if they have an answer.

The problem is that even with a constant/unswitched power source. The unit does not work unless the ignition switch is in the ON position. It behaves as if the ignition switch controls the ground to the unit.

Aloha
tp
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple days ago I wired in a stereo with a toggle between switched and constant 12v. I did this with a single pole double throw switch, whereby the center post on the switch is connected to the stereo's lead which calls for a switched 12v source (red wire). I then connected a constant source to one end of the switch and a switched source to the other.

Since my van previously had a stereo installed, I just used a electrical probe on the old harness to determine which was the switched and which was the constant source, and then used those for my toggle. I then piggybacked onto the constant source for the dedicated constant lead to the stereo (yellow wire).

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The toggle on mine sits below the climate controls

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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice installation Casey, but why does my unit, with an unswitched power source, only work with the ignition switch in the ON position? It behaves as if the ignition switch controls the ground to the unit.

Aloha
tp
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Gunldesnapper
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure about your constant power source Tom? Sounds like your source is either not a constant or you have a wiring issue that should get looked at.
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