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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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 Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Eaallred wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| What about the fact that many farmers have stopped growing other crops so they can just grow corn? Does that not reduce the supply of the other crops, thereby increasing the cost of the other crops? |
Is that fact?  |
Yes. I believe it was mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in one of the other threads about the stupid idea that is corn-based ethanol production. |
Not around here.
Maybe he want us to start making ethanol out of potato's.
Oh, wait, that would be Vodka.
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Mr. Loaf
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 2098
Location: Okra, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: |
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OMG! My miles per gallon just dropped 10%. Now I am only getting 27 MPG. I'm off to the poor house at this rate.
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$24,100 was too hard to resist................. |
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| What about the fact that many farmers have stopped growing other crops so they can just grow corn? Does that not reduce the supply of the other crops, thereby increasing the cost of the other crops? |
Is that fact? |
it is a fact that the wholesale price of all grains went up because of corn subsidies. how would i know? i work in a bakery, and we saw the wholesale price of wheat double last year and the price continues to rise. if you still have doubts, check out this article for some hard numbers on the wholesale prices that bakeries are paying: http://www.qgazette.com/news/2008/0109/features/032.html |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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The price of grains went up due to the increased cost to transport it. When you double the cost of fuel, the trucks have to make that up somewhere.
I discussed this thread with my neighbor. He farms about 600 acres, does custom work for other farmers, and drives a semi hauling grain.
He wants to know where his farm subsidies are. He is not getting any. Works from 5am to 8-9pm, and his wife has to work too, just to get by.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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The farmers here look to be making money with 600 acres! NEW steel buildings/trucks/tractors/6 wheelers/implements etc! They only work hard for 3 months! 
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Just do what the government tells you. They wouldn't lie to you. Where would you get that notion? 
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
The price of grains went up due to the increased cost to transport it. When you double the cost of fuel, the trucks have to make that up somewhere.
I discussed this thread with my neighbor. He farms about 600 acres, does custom work for other farmers, and drives a semi hauling grain.
He wants to know where his farm subsidies are. He is not getting any. Works from 5am to 8-9pm, and his wife has to work too, just to get by. |
I grew up around farming (though my family did not farm) during the 80's when banks were foreclosing on farms at an alarming rate. When I would go to the truck stop for breakfast many of the farmers would bitch about the price of grain, the lack of government intervention in the banking system, and the disappearance of family farms. Then they would pay for their $1.50 coffee and donut, tip the waitress a dime, and get in their new Chevy/Doge/Ford that needed to be replaced every other year, and drive around looking at their crops grow.
My best friend was the youngest of 14 kids, and every one of them worked their ass of on that farm. The family did well. I sometimes helped when they needed it, and got paid very little. ( I had nothing to compare it to at that time, but I was happy for anything) Last I heard the family still had the farm, and was doing OK with it. I think they had 500-600 acres of grain, and a dairy operation.
The price of corn-based food did not go up just because of the cost of fuel. There were many other factors involved, but fuel was a major factor. I don't think it's a stretch to posit that the high corn demand (for use in subsidized ethanol production) caused a reduced supply for other crops. Reduced supply means higher prices, simple economics.
If your neighbor is receiving no subsidies, and is making a living, great. That is the best way to make things work.
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Last edited by cdennisg on Fri May 01, 2009 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
| The price of grains went up due to the increased cost to transport it. When you double the cost of fuel, the trucks have to make that up somewhere. |
by that reasoning, the price of sugar, which has a similar density, should also have doubled the way flour did- but it did not. our bakery uses as much sugar as it does flour, so again i should know.
as i said, and as the article states, the price of wheat continues to rise even though for the last 6 months fuel cost has been way down to pre-2007 levels. |
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jamiles1000
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Somwhere in Canada...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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There are two dissadavantages of ethonal.
First:
It takes 480 lbs of corn to completely fill a 16-gallon fuel tank with pure ethonal.
Also, this must be food quaility corn.
And before Ethonal, most of this corn went to third world countries.
Second:
Corn ethonal is causing other grain prices to rise and because alot of the corn went to cattle it is causing the prices of milk to rise.
So, ethonal staves the third world, wastes corn, and makes corn flakes, all bran and cheese more expensive.
What was the advantage of it again 
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jamiles1000
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Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Somwhere in Canada...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Also, corn and grain comes from areas such as the midwest.
Areas such as Hawaii and Southern California grow sugar.
Thus the corn and grain crop does not effect sugar in any way pricewise.
Unless the price of frosted flakes rises. Then there would be less sugar sold, and the price would stay down.
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
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It's more BS. Just like the healthcare bill, global warming, cap&trade, etc. Keep the people scared. Notice how the media portrays anybody that makes a profit as 'greedy'? Fuck 'em.
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| jamiles1000 wrote: |
There are two dissadavantages of ethonal.
First:
It takes 480 lbs of corn to completely fill a 16-gallon fuel tank with pure ethonal.
Also, this must be food quaility corn.
And before Ethonal, most of this corn went to third world countries.
Second:
Corn ethonal is causing other grain prices to rise and because alot of the corn went to cattle it is causing the prices of milk to rise.
So, ethonal staves the third world, wastes corn, and makes corn flakes, all bran and cheese more expensive.
What was the advantage of it again |
The price of grains has gone up due to the price oil. It cost the farmer a lot more to produce his corps. Diesel fuel and fertilizer are made from petroleum base.
The price of diesel fuel has caused the price of almost everything to rise. Everything we use travels buy truck or train, which is powered by diesel fuel.
Milk prices to the farmer has gone WAY down. Dairy farmers are dumping milk, because they are getting nothing for it, and they are sending their milk cows to slaughter.
The waste products from making ethanol (not ethonal) are used to feed livestock. It is called DDG (dried distillers grain), and has a very high value. Livestock love it.
Right now, they are working on ways to make ethanol from from the waste by-products of corn. The stalks and the corn cobs. It does not need to be food quality grain.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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johnnypan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 7431
Location: sackamenna
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
| jamiles1000 wrote: |
There are two dissadavantages of ethonal.
First:
It takes 480 lbs of corn to completely fill a 16-gallon fuel tank with pure ethonal.
Also, this must be food quaility corn.
And before Ethonal, most of this corn went to third world countries.
Second:
Corn ethonal is causing other grain prices to rise and because alot of the corn went to cattle it is causing the prices of milk to rise.
So, ethonal staves the third world, wastes corn, and makes corn flakes, all bran and cheese more expensive.
What was the advantage of it again |
The price of grains has gone up due to the price oil. It cost the farmer a lot more to produce his corps. Diesel fuel and fertilizer are made from petroleum base.
The price of diesel fuel has caused the price of almost everything to rise. Everything we use travels buy truck or train, which is powered by diesel fuel.
Milk prices to the farmer has gone WAY down. Dairy farmers are dumping milk, because they are getting nothing for it, and they are sending their milk cows to slaughter.
The waste products from making ethanol (not ethonal) are used to feed livestock. It is called DDG (dried distillers grain), and has a very high value. Livestock love it.
Right now, they are working on ways to make ethanol from from the waste by-products of corn. The stalks and the corn cobs. It does not need to be food quality grain. |
But its still a subsidized goverment boondoggle,a way to support agriculture by over valuating a product. Agricultural subsidies and flat out govt hand outs (PIK program)have made farming a protected industry with a strong lobby and the power to strong arm through any process that befits them.This aint about the "family farm"...its business and politics plain and simple...And the corporate interests in agricuture are just as profit motivated as big oil...and if that profit comes from the taxpayer by subsidies,so be it. |
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Iowa Mark
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 1071
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Everyone is forgetting the idea that started the use of ethanol as a fuel in this country. We have been the biggest junkie for oil in the world. When the powers that control the supply says jump, we hop-to. Add to that the fact that there is a limit in the supply itself. Alcohol as a fuel has been around for years, but until the oil scares of the 70's, we didn't use anything but oil. The country was looking for anything to substitute and since we were great at raising corn, and it was high in sugar content, let's target corn. It take a considerable investment to build a still big enough to put any kind of dent in the consumption we have in the US. The ethanol industry is still tiny compared to big oil. We are still learning about how to extract every drop of usable goodies out of whatever we decide to use. Like it or not, we need to go through the motions of fuel production by the means we have right now. After all, the space program wasn't about inventing "Tang". But, it was one of the interesting side effects. What we do end up with could surprise the shit out of us years from now. |
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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In 10 years we'll all be flying around in small saucers like the Jetsons!! 
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Fusillade
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2003
Posts: 399
Location: Abilene, TX
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Iowa Mark wrote: |
| Everyone is forgetting the idea that started the use of ethanol as a fuel in this country. We have been the biggest junkie for oil in the world. When the powers that control the supply says jump, we hop-to. Add to that the fact that there is a limit in the supply itself. Alcohol as a fuel has been around for years, but until the oil scares of the 70's, we didn't use anything but oil. The country was looking for anything to substitute and since we were great at raising corn, and it was high in sugar content, let's target corn. It take a considerable investment to build a still big enough to put any kind of dent in the consumption we have in the US. The ethanol industry is still tiny compared to big oil. We are still learning about how to extract every drop of usable goodies out of whatever we decide to use. Like it or not, we need to go through the motions of fuel production by the means we have right now. After all, the space program wasn't about inventing "Tang". But, it was one of the interesting side effects. What we do end up with could surprise the shit out of us years from now. |
There are some people in the Appalachian Mountains that will teach you how to get all you can get out of corn. Not only that, they will deliver it to you in 1 gallon jugs.
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Splitdog
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Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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I was just gonna say that. Ethanol is for drinkin'! Methanol is what you want to put in your car.
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Splitdog wrote: |
| I was just gonna say that. Ethanol is for drinkin'! Methanol is what you want to put in your car. |
Methanol is wood alcohol, Ethanol is grain alcohol.
Which can we able to produce more of, Trees or grain?
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I can only drink so much.
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bugninva
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Joined: December 14, 2004
Posts: 8858
Location: sound it out.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Fusillade wrote: |
| There are some people in the Appalachian Mountains that will teach you how to get all you can get out of corn. Not only that, they will deliver it to you in 1 gallon jugs. |
... the only good use of fruit is to flavor our corn liquor....
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| With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
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