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Loosenut893
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Vermont
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 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Being electronically ignorant I just wanted to confirm that if I have the cube shaped controller (which I do) and if I pull it out and the light stops blinking (which it did) I just need a new controller? Some day I might understand this stuff. |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Hey BigNick0,
My 90 Multi is doing exactly the same as yours. So the fix is the capacitor replacement as dbeierl described? Oh boy, that sounds like fun 
Maybe I'll just keep rolling the way she is and not risk making matters worse. It really is not that big a deal.
Thx.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Loosenut893 wrote: |
| Being electronically ignorant I just wanted to confirm that if I have the cube shaped controller (which I do) and if I pull it out and the light stops blinking (which it did) I just need a new controller? Some day I might understand this stuff. |
Likely not -- more likely that you have an open circuit somewhere between ground and the sender and the gauge. Start by jumpering the sender wires at the plug. If you get no blinking, then the problem is with the plug contacts or the sender pins themselves. If it stilll blinks, then ground the jumper, remembering to recycle the ignition. If that cures it, you have a bad ground. If it doesn't, next easy thing to do is swap in another controller -- otherwise, check for continuity between the sender plug and the relevant terminal on the controller. If yes, then controller fault is highly likely. |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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So i have an 84 Westy, my light will NOT STOP BLINKING! I raised up the back and bled out the air earlier thinking is was air in the system, nothing, still blinking, no leaks anywhere. unplugged the gauge on top of the coolant tank in the top compartment, not the overflow tank. and still blinking.. im taking it in tomorrow to get it checked, i have tried all i know! any ideas?
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| So i have an 84 Westy, my light will NOT STOP BLINKING! |
Does the gauge needle peg at the same time? If not, unplug the connection to the sender on top of the pressure tank, and see if it then rises (this is to make sure you have the old-type level controller). If it does peg with the sender unplugged, then for certain the problem is either inside the gauge itself (likely) or with the gauge ground or the panel voltage regulator (less likely).
Let me know results and we'll go from there.
Cheers,
David |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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by peg do you mean jump up? because no it doesnt.. i just start it up and the gauge slowly rises to just below the red light that wont stop blinking.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| by peg do you mean jump up? because no it doesnt.. i just start it up and the gauge slowly rises to just below the red light that wont stop blinking. |
Ok, good. Now unplug the sender at the coolant tank, and see if the needle rises to the top. I expect that it will, because the '84s originally had the old-type level controller. Let me know.
David |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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no it didnt, i tried that after bleeding the air out
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| no it didnt, i tried that after bleeding the air out |
Would you check it now, just to be sure? Turn on the ignition, unplug the sender and watch the gauge for a minute. If the needle doesn't rise into the overheat zone you have the new controller, which wasn't stock; and that changes the diagnosis path.
Yrs,
D |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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alright just got done testing it, the gauge went all the way up in a matter of seconds after being left unplugged.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| alright just got done testing it, the gauge went all the way up in a matter of seconds after being left unplugged. |
Ok, great (well, sort of). Your trouble is definitely internal to the gauge (highly likely) or bad power. To check the power, measure between the V+ and ground connections directly on the gauge. You should see 9.50 volts as an absolute minimum -- more usually it's right around 10.0. Maximum reading among the possible pairs will do if it's not obvious which terminal is which.
If that's ok, which I strongly expect, then there's a leaky capacitor inside the gauge. You can either replace it yourself or get me to replace it or swap out the gauge for another. Bear in mind that used gauges will quite likely be on the verge of the same failure.
If you're handy with small work and semi-delicate soldering, drill out the rivets holding the face on, un-solder the heater leads, unsolder the board from the mounting posts, and replace the big electrolytic capacitor at one corner. I think it's 10uF 16v. Aluminum is fine, but tantalum will probably last longer.
If you want me to do it, I have one inbound right now -- after I do that one I'll have a price for the job.
Let me know.
Yrs,
D |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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i took a look inside the the cable connector that i disconnected and there was coolant all up in there, so leaking, im assuming. I do have a soldering gun and lead, but. its been a while. im more of a buy a new one and install it myself. sooo where do i go from here?
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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deprivation
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2006
Posts: 1220
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant light function(s) |
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| dbeierl wrote: |
Actually, strictly speaking the blinking light is *only* to do with temperature -- it triggers any time the gauge receives a signal indicating overheating.
However VW added a low-coolant-detect function by causing the coolant-level controller to simulate an overheat. On the older controller (twice as high as wide) this is a continuous signal, and therefor the needle will also peg just as it would with a true overheat. The newer, cube-shaped controller has two differences: first, it sends the trigger signal only in brief pulses, sufficient to keep the light blinking but not enough to affect the gauge needle appreciably. Second, once it has triggered it latches on until the ignition is shut off; the older setup would stop flashing once the cause was removed. |
Holy crap! Where did you come from?
_________________
1986 Westy 2WD auto a.k.a. "The Old Girl"
www.kittenfart.com |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| i took a look inside the the cable connector that i disconnected and there was coolant all up in there, so leaking, im assuming. I do have a soldering gun and lead, but. its been a while. im more of a buy a new one and install it myself. sooo where do i go from here? |
If the sender is leaking coolant you'll need a new one and a new O-ring, they just screw in. But that leakage would cause the the light *not* to blink when it should.
You still need to fix or replace the gauge.
d |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant light function(s) |
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| deprivation wrote: |
Holy crap! Where did you come from? |
Umm...my mother? Mars? the Vanagon list?
What's up?
Yrs,
d |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| I do have a soldering gun and lead, but. its been a while. im more of a buy a new one and install it myself. sooo where do i go from here? |
I'm guessing that you probably shouldn't tackle the gauge yourself. At the very least you'll need a smaller iron and some desoldering braid and maybe a solder-sucker, and some 60-40 or 63-37 small-gauge electronic solder.
If I do the gauge for you I can also put in a high-brightness LED if you like. I personally think it's a good idea, because a loss-of-coolant-accident with the waterboxer engine is a stop-right-now emergency just like trouble with the oil pressure. The alternator light is a right-now deal too, because if the belt has broken your water pump will have stopped turning.
It's because it's an aluminum engine, not anything to do with VW specifically. Subaru engines are the same.
d |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Coolant light function(s) |
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| dbeierl wrote: |
| deprivation wrote: |
Holy crap! Where did you come from? |
Umm...my mother? Mars? the Vanagon list?
What's up?
Yrs,
d |
I think dep. is impressed with your knowledge and puzzled by your low number of posts, as am I.
Welcome to the Samba Vanagon forum!
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I think dep. is impressed with your knowledge and puzzled by your low number of posts, as am I. |
Ah so! I'm not a web-forum kind of guy, much. You'll find plenty of me if you look in the last twelve years or so of the Vanagon list archives at www.gerry.vanagon.com/ -- barring a hiatus of a few years when my life sorta fell apart.
When I got my '84 in 1992 it was already developing this problem, and the '89 I bought this year is developing it now. It's possible (likely?) that I was the first person to actually understand it; I've been telling people about it for ten years or more. I have a certain amount of electronics background, and it wasn't very hard to understand once I isolated it to the gauge. Later on I analyzed the circuit of the old-type controller; that's why I know so well how it works. The new-type does the same thing except for the latching pulsed output, but they had a chip made so there's not much inside that little cube but the chip and a relay.
Cheers,
David |
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Fococlimber
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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how would i get you to fix it for me?
_________________
1984 Westfalia Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Edition |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Fococlimber wrote: |
| how would i get you to fix it for me? |
Pmail me <dbeierl at-sign attglobal dot net>
As I said earlier, I have one on the way to be fixed now, and after I've done that one I'll know what I need to charge. I'll let you know at that point and we can go from there.
Yrs,
d |
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