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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: blinking coolant temperature LED |
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is it normal for that LED to blink when starting the engine?
the owner's manual is not very helpful on this.... |
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GBA 88West LA
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1279
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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the coolant sensor red light should blink for a few seconds on start up that is normal
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin |
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Williamtaylor33
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Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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as long as the light shuts off in a few seconds your ok.
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89 Bostig powered syncro westy |
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Spinal Tap
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Joined: August 01, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Chicago IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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What they said.
Most cars turn on or blink their lights at startup. It's a bulb check, and you're supposed to notice if they don't turn on or blink. If they don't at startup, time for new bulbs in the dash.
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'85 Westy
'74 MG-B
| RCB wrote: |
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randywebb
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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thx - yes I assumed it was a check of the warning bulb and/or sensor, wiring, but I'd rather not have the engine get munched b/c of assumptions.
Too bad the Owners Manual is so poor -- the heating lever description is also effed up.... |
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MsTaboo
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a new one for you guys.
I have a 90 Multivan with a coolant light that will blink like normal and shut off ONLY if I allow the key to rest in the pre-start position for about 5 seconds and then start van. If I jump in turn the key and start motor immediately, the coolant light will continue to blink forever. The gauge itself works perfectly normal whether I wait a few moments to start motor or not.
Do you think a new coolant sender (to gauge) will help? Or is this something in the dash?
Thanks!
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Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
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floggingmolly
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Joined: April 06, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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The blinking light is a coolant level sensor I believe. I don't think it has anything to do with temp, though I am not 100% on that. And yes, the blinking is normal on start up, then it should go off if your level is OK. For Mystaboo, I think you might want to check all of your connections on the sensor, that sounds like a wierd problem. Also check the sensor itself and see that is doesn't have a lot of gunk built up on it.
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'85 Wolfsburg Weekender |
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Crughy
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Joined: July 12, 2004
Posts: 576
Location: Montreal, Qc
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Check the level of the main coolant tank (not the one by the plate opening/overflow). You can add a bit of water if it is too low. If it's the case, it can blink.
JP |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: Coolant light and heater controls |
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| randywebb wrote: |
| thx - yes I assumed it was a check of the warning bulb and/or sensor, wiring, but I'd rather not have the engine get munched b/c of assumptions. |
On page 37 of my '89 manual it says "For a bulb check the red light in the coolant temperature gauge will flash for about three seconds when the ignition is turned on." I no longer have my '84 manual but it had essentially the same wording.
| Quote: |
| Too bad the Owners Manual is so poor -- the heating lever description is also effed up.... |
I've heard this complaint before; however the description in the manual is in fact precisely correct, even if non-intuitive. VW elected to make it possible to set maximum windshield defrost with one rightward sweep of your hand -- this means that windshield air and temperature, the top two levers, increase toward the right; while footwell air and rear overhead cold air, the two lower levers, increase to the left. If they had explained it that way perhaps it would have been easier to follow. Note that maximum heat will be achieved with the fan on speed two, not three -- the incoming air needs a certain amount of time in the heater core for best heat transfer. |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: blinker affected by humidity, turning key off and on, warmup |
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| 71MYSTABOO wrote: |
Here's a new one for you guys.
I have a 90 Multivan with a coolant light that will blink like normal and shut off ONLY if I allow the key to rest in the pre-start position for about 5 seconds and then start van. |
This is not new, unfortunately. The large capacitor inside the gauge which controls how long the light will blink once it's triggered is failing. You can replace this cap with one of equal value (preferably tantalum) but you have to drill out the rivets holding the face on, then unsolder the delicate leads from the heating element and the two sturdy posts holding the board into the gauge. Note that the cap is polarity-sensitive, and that the back of the board must be extremely clean of rosin and anything else before reassembly, as this is a high-impedance circuit. |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: Coolant light function(s) |
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| floggingmolly wrote: |
| I don't think it has anything to do with temp, though I am not 100% on that. |
Actually, strictly speaking the blinking light is *only* to do with temperature -- it triggers any time the gauge receives a signal indicating overheating.
However VW added a low-coolant-detect function by causing the coolant-level controller to simulate an overheat. On the older controller (twice as high as wide) this is a continuous signal, and therefor the needle will also peg just as it would with a true overheat. The newer, cube-shaped controller has two differences: first, it sends the trigger signal only in brief pulses, sufficient to keep the light blinking but not enough to affect the gauge needle appreciably. Second, once it has triggered it latches on until the ignition is shut off; the older setup would stop flashing once the cause was removed. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Coolant light and heater controls |
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| dbeierl wrote: |
| VW elected to make it possible to set maximum windshield defrost with one rightward sweep of your hand |
I think that VW just F*%*ed up when they designed the control system and then refused to fix it. Probably got a zillion complaints and lost tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of sales because of it. |
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GBA 88West LA
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1279
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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FYI i had a issue with my level sensor put in a new one and prob was intensified, got another one i had in old parts box and it corrected issue apparently i got a bad sensor right out of the box  
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| GBA 88West LA wrote: |
| FYI i had a issue with my level sensor put in a new one and prob was intensified, got another one i had in old parts box and it corrected issue apparently i got a bad sensor right out of the box |
The sensor is just a pair of stainless-steel pins. There's not a huge amount to go wrong with them, except getting covered with a film of grease or oxide so they don't make good contact with the coolant. |
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Coolant light and heater controls |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| I think that VW just F*%*ed up when they designed the control system and then refused to fix it. Probably got a zillion complaints and lost tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands of sales because of it. |
Well personally I'd rather they'd made all levers increase to the right; but apparently they thought that lightning-quick response to a defrosting emergency was more important than intuitively understanding the setup. It's a German thing, I suspect. Heaven forbid you should take your eyes off the road just when your vision was obscured by a sudden inch of frost!
It's not a big deal, though -- you drive the thing, you get used to how the levers work. It never gave me any trouble using other heater controls, just a little smile about the quirks of the vehicle. Like my Saab 96 -- all kinds of things about it were strange. Some very cleverly strange, like being able to operate all controls with thick mittens on, or the totally undamped fuel gauge that never quit moving -- but you always knew exactly what it meant. Some just plain strange, like not being able to open the driver's door with the key if it was locked from inside. Or the freewheeling drivetrain that the two-stroke engine needed but they didn't remove when they made the four-stroke engine standard. |
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PDXWesty
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Location: Portland OR
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dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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That's the one on the coolant gauge/light. I have a few quibbles with it: first, it would be nice if it mentioned the different behavior between the two types of coolant level controller, i.e one causes the gauge to peg and the other one latches on once triggered.
Second, the sender in the coolant pressure tank is not a switch, it's simply a pair of pins. One pin is grounded, and the level controller impresses a very high-impedance (i.e. weak) square wave on the other one. If there is a path between the two pins having a resistance less than about 180 k-ohms, the square wave will be shorted to ground and swamped; and a few seconds later the controller will start sending the overheat signal (i.e. low resistance to ground) to the gauge.
Third, testing by shorting across the sender pins will not diagnose a bad connection at the sender plug; you have to test that at the plug or at the wires just behind the plug.
Fourth, it talks about testing the gauge by touching the temp sender lead to ground, but doesn't warn that this will burn up the gauge if done more than briefly.
And finally, it doesn't address the issue of the leaky cap in the internal gauge blinker circuit that is the major cause of blinking coolant lights that won't stop blinking, as I described above.
But as I said, these are quibbles. |
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Loosenut893
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 28
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| I'm still confused. My '85 Westy's lcoolant light blinks constantly. The temperture gauge seems to work properly and goes about mid way. I checked the coolant levels and they seem fine. Now what? I know the answer is here somewhere but I must be too stupid to figure it out. |
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BigNick0
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Joined: September 14, 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Asheville, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| dbeierl wrote: |
| And finally, it doesn't address the issue of the leaky cap in the internal gauge blinker circuit that is the major cause of blinking coolant lights that won't stop blinking, as I described above. |
I think that sums it up. I experience this same phenomenon if I don't WAIT some time between turning ON the ignition and STARTING the van.
Basically turn the key to on and wait 5-10 seconds. I usually turn the key, and then buckle in. By the time I look up from buckling, the blinking has stopped, and I can start the van without the light flashing any longer. Typically if it's still flashing after 10 seconds, it stops as soon as I turn the key to start the van.
If I just jump in and fire it right up, it will typically blink forever. Though a FEW times, it has eventually stopped. Sometimes after 5-10 minutes of driving.
The long-term fix is to replace the capacitor in the gauge circuit. Of course, this is all assuming that the rest of your wiring has checked out and the sensor itself is clean and functioning properly.
FUN!
-Nick |
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dbeierl
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Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Loosenut, pull the coolant level controller (has 42 or 43 painted on it; unfortunately on the 1.9l it's located up and forward of the relay panel, on left side). If the light still blinks incessantly you have an internal gauge problem; see my post of 12:18 yesterday.
If you can see the controller and verify that it is twice as tall as it is wide, you can skip that step -- that controller also pegs the needle, so since you have blinking light and no pegged needle it's a gauge problem. But if the controller is cubical, you have to pull it to be sure. |
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