| Author |
Message |
rrawlings1
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
dbeierl, I can't thank you enough for your contributions on this thread. I have been fighting the blinking light for the past 4 years. The last mechanic assured me it was just the relay, so he replaced it. The blinking was cured briefly, and after he looked at it again, he said "Just turn it off and then turn it back on again, that should cure it." Which wasn't really acceptable to me. Today I pulled the relay and the light continued to blink, so I decided to be brave, and pulled out my soldering gun. A trip to radio shack and $2 later, my van is cured, and I almost can't believe it.
Thanks again!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
octanemaestro
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Tampa, FL
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
I read the entire thread going back 5 years until the present and I'm sure this is the right thread for my issue but I don't see where the solution to my inoperative temp gauge fits in.
I have an 88 Vanagon with an upgraded GoWesty 2.3L. The temp gauge including LED were working fine before the mechanic did work this morning, now after getting the Westy back from the mechanic the LED blinks to test for a few seconds and turns off as it should but the needle doesn't move from cold. The mechanic did the GoWesty recommended upgrade this afternoon of redoing the grounds on the engine and removing several feet of unnecessary wires in the engine and using heavier gauge, replaced alternator and upgraded alternator wiring harness, replaced driver-side headlight adjuster, and replaced front cabin fan switch.
I can't help but suspect something he did caused the temp needle to be inoperative. Am I wrong to suspect that?
I wiggled the tenp sensor and its wires on on the left side of the thermostat housing and it didn't solve the needle issue.
How can I get the temp gauge to work again? Might something be loose behind the dash from when he changed the fan speed switch? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
| octanemaestro wrote: |
| I read the entire thread going back 5 years until the present and I'm sure this is the right thread for my issue but I don't see where the solution to my inoperative temp gauge fits in. |
You have an open circuit in the sender line from the gauge. Either the sender is not plugged in, or the sender ground is bad, or bad contact at the sender plug, or the sender itself is open (not likely), or there's an open somewhere between there and the panel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rrawlings1 wrote: |
A trip to radio shack and $2 later, my van is cured, and I almost can't believe it.
Thanks again!!! |
You're very welcome. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
octanemaestro
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Tampa, FL
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: Re: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
| dbeierl wrote: |
| octanemaestro wrote: |
| I read the entire thread going back 5 years until the present and I'm sure this is the right thread for my issue but I don't see where the solution to my inoperative temp gauge fits in. |
You have an open circuit in the sender line from the gauge. Either the sender is not plugged in, or the sender ground is bad, or bad contact at the sender plug, or the sender itself is open (not likely), or there's an open somewhere between there and the panel. |
I had a mechanic check to see what was making the gauge inoperative. First he checked the voltage at the wires where they go into the gauge and said it was 11 volts whereas the spec was 8 volts. So he replaced the gauge cluster voltage regulator, which looks like a tiny diode or resistor with 3 pins and plugs into the gauge cluster. The fact that he had voltage at the two wires that come from the sender where those two wires go into the cluster evidenced that there was no open or break in the circuit as you alluded to above. But changing the voltage regulator didn't solve the problem. So he unplugged the connector at the sender jumped the contacts on the wire side of the connector. The gauge still didn't move, and he said it should have pegged the gauge on hot. So he suspected a bad gauge. Just to be sure it wasn't the sender, he replaced the sender. Still didn't solve it. So he concluded the gauge is bad, and he said that's one reason people replace the Vanagon clusters so frequently.
I'd love it not to be a bad gauge because he said they are very fragile and a hassle to replace individually. I am curious, dbeiri, why didn't you point to a possible bad gauge and instead said the circuit most be open or have a bad ground?
Last edited by octanemaestro on Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16502
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: Re: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
| octanemaestro wrote: |
First he checked the voltage at the wires where they go into the gauge and said it was 11 volts whereas the spec was 8 volts. |
The spec is 10.0 volts +/- 0.5 volts. If it was actually 11 volts then replacing the regulator is correct; however that's not your problem -- high voltage at the gauge will make the gauge read high, not fail to read at all.
| Quote: |
| The fact that he had voltage at the two wires that come from the sender where those two wires go into the cluster evidenced that there was no open or break in the circuit as you alluded to above. |
I'm sorry, that's not correct. First of all, only one wire from the sender goes to the panel, the other goes to ground. Second, the voltage comes from the gauge, not from the sender. The sender is just a big variable resistor that has less resistance when it gets hot.
| Quote: |
| But changing the voltage regulator didn't solve the problem. So he unplugged the connector at the sender jumped the contacts on the wire side of the connector. The gauge still [didn't?] move, and he said it should have pegged the gauge on hot. |
That's correct. Any form of open circuit will interfere with this.
| Quote: |
| So he suspected a bad gauge. Just to be sure it wasn't the sender, he replaced the sender. Still didn't solve it. So he concluded the gauge is bad, and he said that's one reason people replace the Vanagon clusters so frequently. |
Now he's blowing smoke. Based on his test, replacing the sender *could not* have fixed the problem, and the reason I didn't mention a bad gauge is I've never ever heard of a single one of those gauges being bad. I'm sure it happens, and the blinker circuit very often goes bad, which can either be repaired or the gauge replaced; but I've never yet heard of a gauge failing to read temperature when everything else was correct. Yes, yours could be the first.
| Quote: |
| I'd love it not to be a bad gauge because he said they are very fragile and a hassle to replace individually. I am curious, dbeiri, why didn't you point to a possible bad gauge and instead said the circuit most be open or have a bad ground? |
More smoke. The gauge is robust as long as you don't mess with the needle or open it up, and it's very easy to replace by removing the two mounting screws holding the tachometer faceplate on, *without* removing the tachometer needle. All that said, you need to take this to someone who understands how to trace a circuit from one end to the other. For a start, go back to the sender and ground the terminals instead of jumpering them together. If the gauge now pegs when you ground one of the terminals, you have a bad ground connection going to the sender connector on the other terminal. Don't leave the connection more than a few seconds, as the gauge will overheat if left grounded for too long.
If it doesn't move, go to the cluster connector and ground the gauge input line there. If it pegs, your problem is in the wiring between there and the sender. If it doesn't, the problem is at the cluster connector, the cluster internal wiring, the gauge connection to the cluster, or the gauge. Grounding the gauge pin directly will tell you if the gauge is working, but if you get the wrong pin you'll blow the panel regulator and/or some of the cluster wiring, so don't do it. The fact that you're getting voltage on the sender line at all says that the internal heating wire inside the gauge isn't broken, though it's conceivable that its soldered connection has deteriorated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: Re: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
That was probably the wrong temp sensor. There are 2 temp sensors in the thermostat housing and the one for the gauge is more hidden. The gauge does NOT use the blue one. The gauge uses the black one.
The one on the side of the housing is normally the the blue one used by the fuel injection. The one for the gauge is black and generally faces the front of the vehicle where you can't really see it from the engine compartment. Get on your back under the van with a flashlight and find the black one.
Mark
| octanemaestro wrote: |
| ....I wiggled the tenp sensor and its wires on on the left side of the thermostat housing and it didn't solve the needle issue... |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
octanemaestro
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Tampa, FL
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:39 am Post subject: Re: new twist on temperature gauge |
|
|
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
That was probably the wrong temp sensor. There are 2 temp sensors in the thermostat housing and the one for the gauge is more hidden. The gauge does NOT use the blue one. The gauge uses the black one.
The one on the side of the housing is normally the the blue one used by the fuel injection. The one for the gauge is black and generally faces the front of the vehicle where you can't really see it from the engine compartment. Get on your back under the van with a flashlight and find the black one.
Mark
| octanemaestro wrote: |
| ....I wiggled the tenp sensor and its wires on on the left side of the thermostat housing and it didn't solve the needle issue... |
|
Yes, I wiggled the wrong sensor initially. From that point on, I've been working on the correct sensor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
specialev
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2011
Posts: 281
Location: Mukilteo WA
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks to this thread I just changed out the capacitor in the temp gauge in my doka with a new cap from radio shack. Light seems to be fixed for now! Thanks, DBeirel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| specialev wrote: |
| Thanks to this thread I just changed out the capacitor in the temp gauge in my doka with a new cap from radio shack. Light seems to be fixed for now! Thanks, DBeirel. |
You're welcome. Should be good for a long time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nuthin2It 
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Marietta, GA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm having the same blinking problem as everyone else. I followed the troubleshooting procedure, with these results:
Cold engine: blinked continuously, gauge needle stayed at zero
Unplugged connection at coolant pressure bottle: blinked continuously, gauge rose to maximum
Shorted connector terminals: blinked continuously, gauge needle stayed at zero
I grounded the blue-green wire on the block behind the gauge using a sewing needle through the wire. The LED blinked continuously and gauge needle stayed at zero. I checked the wire with my meter; it was 2.3 volts. Is this voltage too low?
_________________
1985 Westfalia 15 degree EA288 Boxeer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nuthin2It wrote: |
I'm having the same blinking problem as everyone else. I followed the troubleshooting procedure, with these results:
Cold engine: blinked continuously, gauge needle stayed at zero
Unplugged connection at coolant pressure bottle: blinked continuously, gauge rose to maximum |
You have an old-type controller which is working correctly, and assuming you checked and found the correct 10+/-.5 volts at the gauge you have a bad capacitor in your gauge. Replace or fix the gauge and buy a new-type controller so that it will blink the light when needed without making the needle show overheat. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nuthin2It
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Marietta, GA
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
The voltage of the blue/green wire at the plug behind the gauge was 2.3 volts. Should this be 10+/-.5 volts?
_________________
1985 Westfalia 15 degree EA288 Boxeer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcdennis
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Location: Winston-Salem NC
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nuthin2It wrote: |
| The voltage of the blue/green wire at the plug behind the gauge was 2.3 volts. Should this be 10+/-.5 volts? |
No. The place to measure is marked in this photo.
[/img] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nuthin2It
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Marietta, GA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for all your help. I purchased a temperature gauge and installed it. Everything seems to be working fine.
I have a 1985 with a tachometer. I couldn't find anything on how to actually remove the temperature gauge once the unit is out of the instrument cluster. The screws on the faceplate do NOT need to be removed. Instead, the unit splits in half:
Of course, with the age of the plastic, care must to taken when working the two halves apart, but once they are apart it's a simple task to replace the temperature gauge.
_________________
1985 Westfalia 15 degree EA288 Boxeer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nuthin2It wrote: |
Thanks for all your help. I purchased a temperature gauge and installed it. Everything seems to be working fine.
I have a 1985 with a tachometer. I couldn't find anything on how to actually remove the temperature gauge once the unit is out of the instrument cluster. The screws on the faceplate do NOT need to be removed. Instead, the unit splits in half:
Of course, with the age of the plastic, care must to taken when working the two halves apart, but once they are apart it's a simple task to replace the temperature gauge. |
I'm amused (and embarrassed) that I discovered this just last night after previously wondering about the split. However a) doing it this way requires removing the flex circuit from the panel connector and this portion of the back which may not be necessary otherwise and also exposes the gauge needles to possible violent interference with the edge of the faceplate. The other way is to remove the two screws holding the faceplate on and winkle the gauge out from under. You have to pry just a bit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Seanagon
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: behind you
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED |
|
|
This was a VERY informative thread! Thanks to everyone who contributed. I have a 1988 vanagon that had the intermittent flashing light just like many others. I was able to check various parts and narrow it down to the capacitor in the temp gauge. Before buying a new one I decided to try and replace the old cap with a new tantalum style. I was successful and am very happy with the $2 fix.
FWIW I could not find a 16v so I went with a higher voltage but kept it at 10uf. On to the next thing on my list. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbeierl
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Providence, Rhode Island, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED |
|
|
| Seanagon wrote: |
FWIW I could not find a 16v so I went with a higher voltage but kept it at 10uf. On to the next thing on my list. |
No harm in using a higher voltage rating. The timing is set by the 10 uF value. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TeamSpatula
Samba In The Rain
Joined: February 03, 2004
Posts: 5212
Location: WNC
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:00 am Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED |
|
|
Ok, a slightly different question - After wading through this thread, (and all the great info) I diagnosed my '86 was blinking due to the bad capacitor issue. I happened to have a Mark II cluster in my parts stash, even stamped 1986, and noticed that the temp gauges looked identical. I figured I'd try swapping them out to see if that made a difference. The good news is that it did fix the blinky light issue, which is great. However, while the 2 gauges are *almost* identical, and do fit fine, I noticed that the vanagon gauge is marked for 115°, whereas the MKII gauge was marked 124°.
So, my question is how dangerous are those extra 9 degrees, and has anyone else done this, what were your findings, etc?
Thanks,
_________________
<---Air Cooled Search & Rescue Team - STICKERS & T-shirts for sale!
I NEED A CAMPER!!!! (1971 is ideal but will consider other years)
http://www.TeamSpatula.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
