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blinking coolant temperature LED
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dagrmn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

My 1990 starts flashing after a cold start. If I shut her off and restart just a few moments later, she will stop flashing and the gauge works fine. Any suggestions on how to fix this?
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HackAl
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

I replaced the coolant sensor for $10 and that solved the problem:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8308934&
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

dagrmn wrote:
My 1990 starts flashing after a cold start. If I shut her off and restart just a few moments later, she will stop flashing and the gauge works fine. Any suggestions on how to fix this?


Mine does the same thing when it is cold outside. The sensor likely has some corrosion on it or is otherwise going bad. You can try to carefully remove it from the reservoir and clean the probes, or replace it. I have lived with mine for years, just must be too lazy to deal with it I guess.... Cool
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lucianosanchez
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

Hi All, I've been dealing with a constant flashing temperature light since I got my van and I think I found the issue but I would like some confirmation.

In my 83 water cooled Westy, there is a constant flashing light. I know for a fact it is not the printed circuit because I replaced it with the vanagon.org cluster kit (awesome product, easy to install). I also replaced the 10uf 16v capacitor demonstrated in page three of this post.

While reading more in depth here, I noticed people talking about the 42 or 43 relay which I was not able to find in the main relay below the dash (I was looking at the wrong one; the one with the fuses) but then I saw the 2 port relay above the ground stars and noticed that it was missing a relay which I am assuming is the one for the temperature component because it has the yellow red wires going into it.

Can anyone confirm that this is indeed a missing relay? Or is it meant to be this way? If it is missing, what would I need to purchase, anyone have links to the right relay?

PS. the temperature reads correctly and gauge moves without problem, my only problem is a pesky flashing temp light.

Here is a picture of what the relay above the ground stars looks like right now.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Thanks for the help.
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

You may need a new relay (Coolant Level Warning Lamp Control Module), but that does not explain your blinking light. The coolant "relay" sends the signal to make the LED flash when low coolant is detected. If it is missing, that is not the cause of your constant flashing. I would double-check the capacitor you replaced in the gauge. Are you sure you got the plus and minus sides correct? Good clean soldering?
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lucianosanchez
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
You may need a new relay (Coolant Level Warning Lamp Control Module), but that does not explain your blinking light. The coolant "relay" sends the signal to make the LED flash when low coolant is detected. If it is missing, that is not the cause of your constant flashing. I would double-check the capacitor you replaced in the gauge. Are you sure you got the plus and minus sides correct? Good clean soldering?


The light was also blinking before replacing the capacitor. And yes I did a pretty good job soldering the new capacitor with the correct polarity.

I also thought it was weird that it flashed without the relay in there. From what I read, you need the relay for it to flash. Im really puzzled as to what might be causing it. I guess it won't hurt to put in a new relay there?

What does the relay to the right in my picture do, number 24?

Thanks,
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

That other relay should be for the high speed radiator fan.

I'm all but certian your steady blinking LED is an issue with that circuit board in the gauge. If it was something else, your gauge would also be reading high. The two are supposed to work together. The low coolant "relay" actually sends the same signal as an overheating engine to make the light flash. So if the gauge reads normally, the blinking LED has to be caused by the circuit that makes it blink being faulty.
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HackAl
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

For $10 and 5 minutes, replace the sensor if you hadn't done that already. That may solve the problem. If not, then try something more invasive.

I had read somewhere that there's not much that can go wrong with the sensor but hook it up to a multi-meter while in anti-freeze and you may see the resistance is just too high. See my link above. That's what happened. I replaced the sensor. Problem solved.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

i recently had the blinking light issue and when i cleaned my coolant level probe it seems to clear up the issue. but after running the engine several times the problem came back. when i tested the coolant level circuit ( i have a 42 controller) the s terminal to level sensor plug wire continuity check ok with connector removed. but when i checked the resistance to ground with the connector installed the level sensor probe was 1.6M ohms. definitely out of spec. i guess i need to check the ground circuit.
i read in another thread that the probe in coolant should read between 31 -65k ohms. i need to check the level probe to ground at the connector.

i checked the voltage at the 42 cube and it was 10 vdc. so i need to check the temp sender voltage and operation. temp gauge seems to be working. needle sets just below the light when engine is warmed up. below freezing weather the gauge dosent get to the light. if i unplug the controller (42) then the blinking stops and the temp gauge dosent move.

dbeierl you have a great amount of understanding and experience on this circuit. i was wondering if you have a schematic of the controller and gauge circuit?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

does anyone know the ic # that is in the coolant temp gauge. it looks like it is a SFC 7410c chip but the instrument gauge that i have is very hard to read.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

checked the wire from relay 42 ( level and temp controller relay) to level sensor and shorted the level probe sensors probes. ground connection was good. and wires rang out ok. volts at relay were within spec(10vdc) and temperature gauge works fine ( tested it with ir meter). replaced 42 relay and level control seems to work ok on the s terminal on relay 42 the wire measured 15-18 megohms to ground with level probe out of tank and with coolant in tank and level probe in tank the ohms read 5-8 megohoms.
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mattlamb
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

My 1982 Diesel got a nice AAZ 1.9 turbo upgrade, water temperature gauge refused to work. (single wire sensor)

tried earthing the sensor lead to body, zap water gauge went to hot.

Gauge is fine, sensor is new.

Looking at the water pipe manifold it has a gasket between the engine body and the manifold (& sensor).

removed one bolt on the manifold (very slight water leakage) , cleaned it and added earth wire under the bolt.
bingo water temperature gauge came to life.

AAZ seems to be sitting at midpoint over the led light when hot.

must check actual temperature somehow?
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

Get an IR temp gun and check at the coolant manifold where it leaves and where it returns from the coolant pipes.
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

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MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

How exactly is this added earth wire run?

Normal operating temp with an 87 degree thermostat should put the temp needle touching some part of the led, often the upper edge.

Mark


mattlamb wrote:
.....
removed one bolt on the manifold (very slight water leakage) , cleaned it and added earth wire under the bolt.
bingo water temperature gauge came to life.

AAZ seems to be sitting at midpoint over the led light when hot.....
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mattlamb
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

I undid one bolt on the water manifold, tucked the copper wire under the manifold bolt, tightened the bolt down and hooked the other end around a metal pipe on the engine.
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runningfix
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

Hi All

I’m new to samba, new to the 1983 1.9L DG wbx LHD, but not entirely new to the T25 (my buddy and I drove a 1982 air cooled California from Miami to Seattle – and fixed it in every state we drove thru – but that’s another adventure). I’m planning a trip to North Africa with this beauty in January all being well of course.

I’ve just spent the last 3 days on the internet (samba & club8090), my head stuck into Sir Bently, Haynes, or over a multimeter into most of the wiring boxes that I can find – all to figure out why the temperature LED is constantly blinking. Might not be rocket science to some, but my head is sore and right now it’s up there with astrophysics and quantitative easing. Each discovery leads to another bunch of questions. So far in short…

The temp needle seems to work fine showing normal temperature rock solid when warm (vertical middle). Disconnecting the yellow/red wire from the single pin temp gauge sensor on the thermostat housing - the gauge goes black (LED goes out and the needle stays leftmost), so all good with continuity along the yellow red wire then (I’ve also traced it forward in the course of my investigation). My 1983 model is not fuel injected so doesn’t have a second sensor on the thermostat housing, just the single pin sensor.

I fixed a broken ground lead (brown) on the coolant level sensor expansion tank (inside its rubber boot), but not before I had replaced the sensor in the expansion tank – all good there now and I can trace blue/green continuity all the way back to relay 43 (which by the way took me forever to find being well hidden on the A pillar above the rest of the relays). Removing relay 43 has no effect, the LED continues to flash.

BTW, I discovered a previous owner had hardwired a blue wire direct from the inlet manifold heater thermoswitch on the top coolant pipe (near to the carburettor on my model) directly to the yellow/red wire in the 14 way multi-pin connector in the cluster, bypassing relay 43. I’m a bit anal and whilst this might work for the temp needle on the gauge it doesn’t address the LED flashing, and bottom line I want it to be wired up correctly and work correctly. I’ve disconnected this blue wire and am trying to get it to work via the yellow/red wire as designed (hoping at the same time to sort the flashing LED).

In the process of investigation….

My temperature gauge sensor takes 12+ volts from the supply to the dual pin inlet manifold heater thermoswitch via a white wire to supply the single pin temp gauge sensor on the thermostat housing and this is piggy backed with the yellow/red wire. I can’t find anywhere on samba or club8090 that talk about anything other that 10 volts +/- 0.5 for the temperature gauge sensor OR where this 10 +/- is supplied from, nor have I found a thread using the manifold thermoswitch to supply the gauge sensor – is this a normal wiring configuration for the temperature gauge sensor?

Once I’ve understood and/or sorted the correct wiring configuration hopefully I can then concentrate on the flashing LED …and given that the DIY blue hardwire didn't stop the LED flashing it suggests that the problem lies above relay 43 with the gauge itself, the multipin connector in the cluster, or is due to 12+ volts supply being out of tolerance for the gauge – yes?

Methinks that if the temp gauge is senstive to 10 volts +/- 0.5 tolerance then a 12+ volt supply would trigger the LED to flash and is the most likely culprit?

I’m at the mercy of the gracious gods on samba.

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dbeierl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

runningfix wrote:


My temperature gauge sensor takes 12+ volts from the supply to the dual pin inlet manifold heater thermoswitch via a white wire to supply the single pin temp gauge sensor on the thermostat housing and this is piggy backed with the yellow/red wire. I can’t find anywhere on samba or club8090 that talk about anything other that 10 volts +/- 0.5 for the temperature gauge sensor OR where this 10 +/- is supplied from, nor have I found a thread using the manifold thermoswitch to supply the gauge sensor – is this a normal wiring configuration for the temperature gauge sensor?


This is completely bizarre and wrong.

The gauge and the fuel gauge are supplied with +10V by the instrument panel voltage regulator (small black three-legged package screwed to a flat heat sink). The other side of the gauge goes to the gauge sender and from there to ground. No funny wires anywhere.

The above arrangement will give proper gauge operation, as well as an overheat blinker when the sender resistance falls to about 45 ohms.

*In addition* the coolant level controller (43 "relay") is connected in parallel to the sender. When it detects low coolant it triggers and simulates an overheated gauge sender, thus triggering the blinking light. Early versions of the controller also cause the gauge needle to rise to the top.

Correct the wiring and see how it behaves then. We can go from there.
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runningfix
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

Thanks dbeierl, much appreciated.

That's exactly what I thought. I figured out the wiring schematic in bentley and when I corrected the wiring to the schematic, everything goes black - nothing, no flashing light, no gauge movement - and no voltage at the temp sensor (yellow/red wire).

From what you're saying the temp sensor (yellow/red wire ) takes its voltage (+10v) from the voltage regulator and not the +12v from relay 43. Ok, that suggests I must have something wrong at the instrument panel then - yes? I had interpreted the schematic incorrectly then, thinking yellow/red was meant to take +12v from relay 43 and the voltage regulator stepping it down to +10v to the gauge - doh - hence I thought it as a bad relay 43 and ordered the newer 42 to replace my tall 43, along with a new temperature sensor to be safe - oh well, consider it an upgrade - when they arrive I'll drop them in and continue my investigation into the panel.

I'll post the results.

BTW I since discovered that Club80-90 have a wiki with an excellent lay persons schematic on the topic http://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/Coolant_and_Heating_Flashing_red_light_on_dash
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dbeierl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

runningfix wrote:
Thanks dbeierl, much appreciated.

That's exactly what I thought. I figured out the wiring schematic in bentley and when I corrected the wiring to the schematic, everything goes black - nothing, no flashing light, no gauge movement - and no voltage at the temp sensor (yellow/red wire).

Do you get the 2-3 second blink at key on?

Does your fuel gauge work properly?
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runningfix
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: blinking coolant temperature LED Reply with quote

No, it's completely black - nothing. Yes, the fuel gauge works properly as do the other LED's for battery and oil.

However, when the circuitry is bypassed via the blue wire from the intake manifold thermoswitch direct to the yellow/red wire on the 14 way multipin connector at the panel, the LED flashes (constantly) and the gauge works as expected (needle points north). That implies the LED is good, the gauge is good, but the +10v from the voltage regulator is not getting to the yellow/red wire at the gauge and hence to the temp sensor. I need to investigate the panel and report back.
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