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Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns...
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ozon
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

Hello everyone, i know this is my first topic, and there are many topics about this problem, but i did not understand any of them really. And i want to notify that i don't understand so much about electricity, so here we go.

I had a broken switch from my multivan, so i replaced it with a new one from brickwerks.
Old ones code : 321 941 531 a (when it was on there was no light on instrument cluster, etc.) (And the relay connected to the dimmer was completely melted)

New ones code : 251 941 531 M

When i connected the switch, i got on the road and tried, first instrument cluster and other lights of the cockpit lighted on and the right of them starts
to blink and then completely off. There was a heat on the switch, and there was smell of burning plastic. and the result was a melted relay(connected to the dimmer).

So here is my problem, i am sure if i continue like this, i ll have a bunch of melted switches. Any idea to fix this problem before i renew the switch? ( I ll buy a jopex or a second hand original switch)

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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

Be aware, not sure if it relates to your issue.
VW made an important change to the headlight switch wiring around 89/90.
It is possible that your van has the later headlight switch wiring.
If it has the later switch wiring you need the later switch.
You must not use the older type switch in a van with the new type switch wiring because that would bypass the FUSE for the dash lighting.

251 941 531 M switch is for the older wiring type
251 941 531 T switch is for the newer wiring type

Vans with the new type switch wiring use fuse #20 for the dash lighting.
Is your fuse #20 blown?

Vans with the new switch wiring have a solid color grey wire to pin 58E of the new type switch and socket. Old type switch wiring doesn't have any pin 58E wire.

Mark
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ozon
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Be aware, not sure if it relates to your issue.
VW made an important change to the headlight switch wiring around 89/90.
It is possible that your van has the later headlight switch wiring.
If it has the later switch wiring you need the later switch.
You must not use the older type switch in a van with the new type switch wiring because that would bypass the FUSE for the dash lighting.

251 941 531 M switch is for the older wiring type
251 941 531 T switch is for the newer wiring type

Vans with the new type switch wiring use fuse #20 for the dash lighting.
Is your fuse #20 blown?

Vans with the new switch wiring have a solid color grey wire to pin 58E of the new type switch and socket. Old type switch wiring doesn't have any pin 58E wire.

Mark


These photos are from my old switch, how can i check the suitable switch (old or new) for my vanagon?
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

You need to look at the socket and wiring to the socket.

Mark
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ozon
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

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i don't think there is a 58e socket, here are some photos but i was in a hurry and there was low light so, i need an old switch?
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

I don't see a 58e. But what is that grey wire that looks like it is hanging loose? Also, you didn't show a photo of the back of the socket where the wires go into it.

Mark
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ozon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
I don't see a 58e. But what is that grey wire that looks like it is hanging loose? Also, you didn't show a photo of the back of the socket where the wires go into it.

Mark

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Here are more photos of cables. It is a mess. That purple wire goes to the heating button.
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ozon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

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And there are no cables going in to 30 and 56 d
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

The hacked wire on 58b is the output wire of the dash lighting adjuster wheel.
The melting problem is probably caused by the hacked wire or something attached by it. I would remove everything from the 58b wiring except the grey/blue wire.

It looks to me like someone put the older version of the socket on the later wires. Since my wiring diagrams are for USA/CA models I can't be sure.

Mark
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ozon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
The hacked wire on 58b is the output wire of the dash lighting adjuster wheel.
The melting problem is probably caused by the hacked wire or something attached by it. I would remove everything from the 58b wiring except the grey/blue wire.

It looks to me like someone put the older version of the socket on the later wires. Since my wiring diagrams are for USA/CA models I can't be sure.

Mark


Thanks Mark!!! I'll try it, but first i have to get a new switch, do you suggest the T version? and socket may be? And it seems there is no 58b ? do you mean 56d?
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

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Pin 58b shown above.


With the existing socket I think you need switch M but I can't be sure what is what on your van.
If you have an ohm meter you could test to see what is the source to pin 58 and/or whether output 58b connects to fuse #20.

Mark
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

Ugh.

Of course your hacked wiring is not helping, but a burned switch is fairly common
due to high current to the headlights plus additional heat from the resistor as dash
lights are dimmed. After running headlights for any appreciable time, touch the switch
on a van with stock wiring & you'll feel HEAT. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Run the dash lights low & there'll be EVEN MORE... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Fix the hacks, clean grounds, brighten up the dash dimmer &/or put in relays to save
your switch...All four would be ideal! Cool Cool Cool

- Dave
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

@ ozon:

did the dimmer wiring in the failed headlight switch get damaged?

On my 1981, the headlight dimmer burned out. I suspect that the climate control display bulb shorted to the dash metal. My thread on that with images:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683448&highlight=melted+dimmer

On my headlight switch, I could inspect some of the dimmer wire winding without taking it apart. Maybe this is true for later style switches? A voltmeter would confirm.

In Bentley, it appears VW did NOT fuse the 58b circuit until 1985.

In ozon's Vanagon, it sure seems like the modified dash light wiring is NOT fused.

Neil.
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fraggle00
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon Headlight switch dimmer smokes and burns... Reply with quote

Lots of scary bare wires in that hack. I'd start by cleaning that up. It is possible that those connections would work if they didn't touch anything, but the whole thing looks ready to catch fire as is.
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