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aluk Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2016 Posts: 67 Location: Las Vegas NV
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:35 am Post subject: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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So, as I have spent the last couple of evenings grinding my 6 volt bell housing to accept a 12 volt flywheel, I will soon be ready to install an exhaust system. I really wanted to install a bobtail quiet pack but I see they don't come with heat riser flanges. I live in Las Vegas and I don't know how much of a difference that will make. I do like the look of bazookas on a buggy and they are readily available with heat risers. Will bazookas really affect the performance that much? I really don't want to mess with adding heat risers to an exhaust system. Thanks.
Last edited by aluk on Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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andygere Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2014 Posts: 600 Location: Central Coast, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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If you are running a stock single carb, heat risers really help. I'm running a 1600 with a 34 PICT 3 without heat risers, and it takes a long time to warm up and run nicely. I live in the temperate central coast of California.
I had EMPI dual cannons with heat risers on my last buggy, and they sounded great (though loud when you get on the throttle) and had heat riser flanges which got the carb and manifolds warm quickly. On a stock motor, the difference in performance will be small, but a 4 into 1 extractor will make a bigger difference as displacement and induction increase in size. |
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heywebonya Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010 Posts: 823 Location: Portage, MI
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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I switched from Bazookas to a 4 in 1 and felt a lot more torque. Great change and the neighbors are much happier too!
- Jeff _________________ If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy! |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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I went from dual cannons to a merged on a 1776 and couldn't really tell a difference in performance. I ran a bobtail for about an hour before I lopped it off and installed a muffler, it was unbearably loud. I've run single Webers and Dellortos and stock 30s and 34s on manifolds with no heat risers and the carbs worked very well, and I live in a much cooler and humid climate. It's your car do what ultimately makes you happy. IF you aren't looking for every last hp or ft/lb of torque, go with cannons. I like the way they fill out the back of the car.
brad |
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BIGMIKEY Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2007 Posts: 1105 Location: North East Pennsylvania
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aluk Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2016 Posts: 67 Location: Las Vegas NV
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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[quote="BIGMIKEY"]Dual cannons/Bazookas sure will fit 1200 - 1600. No problem. They don't care how wide the engine is.
Mike T[/quote
You are correct, my bad. Doh! |
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BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15308 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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yes you can tell a difference. On my Dunebuggy with a 1756 I went 1/2 second quicker in the 1/4 mile when switching from dual cannons to a merged exhaust. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8700 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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My buggy with a stock 1600 and dual exhaust will do 80mph on the interstate without much effort, which is plenty fast enough for me. If you aren't racing you won't notice the difference. Get whatever exhaust you like. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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Went from Bazookas to a proper header on our buggy. NOTICABLE difference in low end. Started with a bob-tail, but hated the look of all that hanging off the ass end. Went to a 1 3/8" (DONT go larger) U bend from A1 and added a short .....went brain dead...what the hell is it called....OH YEAH - Super trap. Nice tone, very good performance and only loud when you are really on it and its really not that bad.. BUT doesnt resolve head riser issue. Just get dual carbs...You will like them.
_________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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didget69 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004 Posts: 4927 Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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I like Murzi's Hayabusa muffler solution...
bnc _________________ I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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vponder Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2013 Posts: 289 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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Dont mean to hijack a thread, Im looking for an exhaust that I saw on a buggy over seas. I was communicating with a guy on FB about it , it was on his buggy, its dual cannons but he said it was really quite. It looked like gun barrels with pea shooters out the end. I cant find the post. He said they have limited performance options over there, he said that set was 400 euros. Didnt know if someone knew what I was describing. |
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ECRAB3 Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2008 Posts: 100 Location: New Orleans, La.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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I still wish there was a sticky somewhere with links to videos of the different exhaust types on buggies. There is a few here and there, most are bad, the camera set up right behind the exhaust or basically way too close. Best is hearing it start up in a garage from afar and the drive by cruising and then another pass hard on the throttle. That is my wish |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16758 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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ECRAB3 wrote: |
I still wish there was a sticky somewhere with links to videos of the different exhaust types on buggies. There is a few here and there, most are bad, the camera set up right behind the exhaust or basically way too close. Best is hearing it start up in a garage from afar and the drive by cruising and then another pass hard on the throttle. That is my wish |
The problem is that unless you are using the same method to record the sound, its pretty much worthless to do. But totally with you on the wish. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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David Wayne Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2010 Posts: 169 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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I am currently running a baffled chrome stinger on my street buggy. I'm rolling with a 2109 and a Bobcat exhaust.. It's just too loud, but I hate to give up the stinger look. I wondering how effective in reducing the exhaust note that Hayabusa muffler is? |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12735 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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My buggy came with dual cannons and dual Kadrons. Bad combination in my experience, can't get a decent dependable idle and the low end is poor. My sand rail on the other hand has the stock single center mounted carb and canons - actually runs ok.
Both buggys are too loud for comfort on long rides though.
Question: how the heck do you bobtail guys manage work on anything on your engine with all those hot pipes in the way? Specifically the distributor and timing. |
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YDBD Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017 Posts: 891 Location: Bavaria, Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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Heat risers definitely help with a single carb. I never liked the sound of duals, either in the buggy or on the Thing, too much flapping sound and usually not enough back pressure. I like the standard header with either a QP or stinger for heat risers...but I'm running the Manx Sidewinder glass pack and enjoying it quite a bit. |
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tgodber Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2004 Posts: 410 Location: Okanagan Falls B.C. Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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My old copy of Hot VWs had an article on bolt-on products available to increase hp. The article said 15% hp gain for 4 in 1 headers versus cannons. _________________ My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that! |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12735 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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tgodber wrote: |
My old copy of Hot VWs had an article on bolt-on products available to increase hp. The article said 15% hp gain for 4 in 1 headers versus cannons. |
I have learned over the years not to get too excited about claims made whether by manufacturers or the magazines they sponsor. Ok, 15%(I would not have guessed that much) but - under what conditions, what other engine mods and is it at a usable rpm for practical every day driving?
"Individual results may vary" is the key here!
My reasons for not liking cannons is purely noise and drivability issues. My first 4 into 1 system went on a bone stock '71 super beetle and to tell you the truth I could not see or feel any difference in performance over the stuck muffler. But it looked and sounded cool... that was good enough for me back then! |
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wythac Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 2791
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: bobtail vs. bazookas |
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This discussion comes up from time to time and the ball doesn't really move much because there hasn't really been much tech development in the area of providing exhaust options for an obsolete motor design...we gotta use what's out there 'cause nuthin' new will be coming down the pike.
A 10-15% change isn't likely to mean that much to someone running a 60-70hp motor. 6 or 7hp, the output of a rotary lawn mower. Yes, you'd notice it on the dragstrip. Would you notice it driving around town? Maybe a little. Should you make your header choice based on that? Probably not. Use what you think looks good and works with your other build plans. And maybe your living situation;
I think most dual cannons systems are painfully loud. This is of course, entirely subjective. Even with my 4-1 I coast into my drive if I come back into my neighborhood late in the evening. These are loud little cars to begin with and cannons are about the loudest exhaust option for them. If you live in the country and there is a lot of distance between you and your neighbors, the extra noise of cannons may not be an issue. If you live in the a city or a suburban neighborhood, you may find yourself in a few spirited exchanges with your near neighbors if you come home late or want to tune it in your driveway.
One other thing to think of is whether you are going to utilize a rear engine cage. You'll have to make sure your cage works with your exhaust choice.
So my point is that I wouldn't make your choice based on performance unless its a performance build and that's important to you. Several other practical and aesthetic considerations to factor in. |
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