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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:00 pm Post subject: wiring euro tail lights in a 71 |
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i was wondering about doing the euro tail light swap to my 71. after a look at the wire diagram, it looks to me as if i would remove the black/red wire from terminal 54 on the hazard switch, and run an additional wire from the black/red wire to the stop lights. (if anyone follows that)
sound right? |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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According to my Bentley, I'd say that's correct: 54 is definitely the feeder from the stop light switch. Disconnecting it from the Hazard switch will stop the non-blinking turn signal bulb(s) from acting as a brake light. So you wire the existing turn/brake harness wires to the yellow-lensed bulbs, and a new wire from the stop light feeder to the new red-lensed bulbs.
Sounds like a plan.
Where you getting the euro fixtures? |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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don't know yet  i have some NOS lenses, just have to get the holders. the wiring i speak of seems to make sense (well, at least to us) i still need to dig in to the dash and test out my theory in the drivers seat before i go running wires all over the place. guess i will just camp out on fleabay.de or uk till i find a seller willing to ship to the US of A  |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Well let me know how that works out. Sounds like a good mod to me - but then anything that helps keep the bozo behind me from modifying my sheet metal sounds good to me... |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| One thing: the hazard switch is hot all the time and in a tight spot, so disconnect the battery ground strap before messing with it. Also, these switches were poorly made, it seems, and like to spontaneously come apart. A tie-wrap around the switch body makes for a viable fix (e.g., new switches aren't any better). Also, I'd cut a bunch of 1" lengths of 1/4" heat shrink tubing, and insulate all the wires going to the switch - guards against anything getting in there and shorting stuff out. Just a thought. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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thats cool  it may be a while before i get a chance to tackle this, but i promise to post the results when i do. or i should say, it may be some time before i source euro bulb holders |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51148
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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You are very close, but you'll also have to remove the black/yellow and black/red wires from the signal switch and piggyback them to the front signal wires, the signal switch cuts out the Hr or Hl terminal to operate the brake light on whatever side isn't signalling.
You should be able to get those Brazil repro lights with the stamped backs off Ebay or possibly here: http://www.brazilshopping.com/autoparts.html , if you do end up with genuine euro fixtures avoid the early ones as they are a biotch to ground properly, 68 and later ones have a seperate ground tab.
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VWDruid
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2008
Posts: 1192
Location: Boca de Ratones FL
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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I looked into this mod also, have a look at the wiring diagram specs from the Euro Bentley.
sorry nothing on euro specs from 68 to 71 maybe NASkeet will chime in.
I have also heard about the Brazilian stuff being crap, but it may have been old threads and such.
any clue who makes these? http://www.vwheritage.com/vwh/VW-Camper-Van-Parts%...lateID=vwh
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| thanks for the replies guys~ busdaddy, after posting, it did in fact look as if i may need to do as you said with the t/s wires. as soon as i get my hands on the rest of the parts, i will figure it out and do a write up on it. |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
You are very close, but you'll also have to remove the black/yellow and black/red wires from the signal switch and piggyback them to the front signal wires, the signal switch cuts out the Hr or Hl terminal to operate the brake light on whatever side isn't signaling.
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Uh, not sure on that - as I recall, the turn signal switch is wired such that turn signal use has priority over brake lights on the rear lights. Consider: if the brake light switches both fail, the rear turn signals still work. Removing the brake light switch wire emulates a dual brake light switch failure.
Of course, it's easy to find out - remove the wire and try it.
Interesting link on those taillight assemblies - looks like the right parts. Thanks busdaddy.
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
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Jeff Geisen
Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 1882
Location: N.W. Georgia
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
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... I can fax you a copy of the wiring instructions that I received with my euro tail lights. Just send me a PM.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Geisen wrote: |
| ... I can fax you a copy of the wiring instructions that I received with my euro tail lights. Just send me a PM. |
well, got the diagram from Jeff, and just as i suspected, it was a very simple process. remove the wire going to terminal 54 on the hazard switch. (this comes up from the brake light switch. it *should* be black/red, but on my bus it was yellow  ) take the wire you remove, and run that to the back of the bus. that is your new brake light wire.
i aquired a pair of NOS euro tail lights. i found the bases here http://www.vwparts.net/211945241AE.html. i just bought the whole kit, and they took a lot of work to make fit correctly.
here is the bulb holder. not bad, the light sockets are about as crappy as the OE ones, but should work ok
here are the lights, the repros (on left) come with a poor quaility chrome ring, and the OE ones have the chrome under the plastic (just like the turn sig.lens)
now, the fun. the bases are poorly drilled for the attachment screws, the captive nut is about 1/8 inch off, so trying to get them to attach thru the body is impossible
so, i ground off the captive nut, and filed the hole so it would correctly align with the body. funny thing is, even with the aftermarket lenses, the screws still wouldn't work.
here it is welded in the new position
the seal is different too. it is a bit thicker than the US spec lights. problem is, the lenses (both OE and aftermarket) have bosses around the screw holes. the seals do not
so, i made new holes
you only need to go thru the first layer of rubber, shown here:
sadly, my camera is being lazy~ but i will post pix of the install soon. i also took a X acto knife to the 'flash' on the seals.
overall, fairly easy, but it was the good old 'make it fit' |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51148
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Good to see you're making progress, those lights are the Brazilian ones so it's a small wonder they need some mods, maybe you should call them NOBS, at least the lenses have reflectors, some don't, the lenses with the chrome cast into the plastic look like the real deal though.
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Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| maybe you should call them NOBS, at least the lenses have reflectors, some don't, the lenses with the chrome cast into the plastic look like the real deal though. |
thanks BD. yea, the other lights are in fact hella lenses. the 'others' are ok, the amber portion looks a bit 'cheap' and the chrome trim is just plain poorly made. other than that, i am pretty happy with them. should have pix of the finished product soon |
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Blaubus
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| telford dorr wrote: |
Uh, not sure on that - as I recall, the turn signal switch is wired such that turn signal use has priority over brake lights on the rear light...Of course, it's easy to find out - remove the wire and try it. . |
its really not a mysterious process-
the priority you speak of works like this:
the turn signal switch keeps the brake light wire connected to both taillights only when the switch stick is in the center position. as soon as you move the stick left, the TS switch disconnects the brake light wire from the left taillight only- at the same time, it connects the left taillight to the flasher relay.
so not having the brake light wire connected to the turn signal switch (thru the hazard switch) will not have an effect on the directional function because the brake light signal is always isolated from the relay on a 71.
simply disconnect the wire from hazard 54 and extend it to both taillight's lower sockets. done. for the reason listed above, there is no need to disconnect the brake light wire that runs between the hazard and the turn signal switch.
| Quote: |
| Also, these switches were poorly made, it seems, and like to spontaneously come apart. |
this is so true of the later hazard switch, but the 71s dont do that ever as far as i know. i claim to know this because i have owned 3 of them over the past few decades. |
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telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| dansvans wrote: |
| For the reason listed above, there is no need to disconnect the brake light wire that runs between the hazard and the turn signal switch. |
In fact, if you do disconnect this wire, the rear emergency flashers don't work correctly.
| Quote: |
| This is so true of the later hazard switch, but the 71s don't do that ever as far as i know. |
Tried to on mine (it was an original switch). Tie-wrap fixed it.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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Yarkle
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: the Hills of Western Maine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Skills,
How did you run the wire to the back? did you just follow the main loom and wire tie or tape it in place, or did you take another route? I was thinking of getting something like the black tubing, run the wire through that, then cable tie or tape it to the main loom.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51148
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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I like the 4 wire trailer wire from the FLAPS, you can never have enough bonus wires running to the back for things like gauges and accessory power. I zip tie it to the main harness.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Tcash
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| I like the 4 wire trailer wire from the FLAPS, you can never have enough bonus wires running to the back for things like gauges and accessory power. I zip tie it to the main harness. |
bingo. a bit 'booty' but running that gave me tach, oil pressure, oil temp and the wire for the euro lights
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