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Adding modern scoop for split bus engine bay cooling / pres.
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Sambafraser
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how will you know how fast it the fan is running?
If you brake it then it will produce heat Embarassed

As for the fore thought of the 50's design, well the fact that punters are getting 200hp out of something that was designed for 40hp 50 years ago and they aren't overheating should answer your question.
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flemcadiddlehopper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sambafraser wrote:
So you have your heart set on the bilge pump in a tube running the length of the van.

I think it will catch fire.

Wanna know why? You have a bigger volume fan powered by your engine. You will be driving along the road with a inlet that will be larger than the diameter of your tube which multiples the volume of air going into it.
Plus you are sticking it in the airstream at 100kph in a dirty place which it isn't designed to do.
Then to add to this you have the inlets on the side of the van which are about 8 times the size of the tube you are using acting as an vent as they are in the smooth air stream along the side of the van exhausting air out sucking air against your engine fan - Like taking your finger off a bong vent.
This will cause the fan in the tube to run at a very high speed.

So question is do you know why the rear vents on the Vanagon are recessed into the bodywork?


Good point, the fan will be spun by the pressured air at speeds that would exceed 4 times what it was designed for. I'll put a brake on it.

I am not a tailgater on a dirt road, so why is the front of the bus dirtier air than what is behind your own wheels?

My guess about the vanagon vents... Vanagons suck, but that is besides the point your about to make. Smooth air flow? Turbulent air flow? Who hops up a Vanagon?

If VW designers had such huge fore thought as to design the air vents in the bus to be at 225% above the normal usage, and that they expected people to put large displacement engines in their buses, why did they only make the speedo go to 80mph?

Gordo.
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Sambafraser
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you have your heart set on the bilge pump in a tube running the length of the van.

I think it will catch fire.

Wanna know why? You have a bigger volume fan powered by your engine. You will be driving along the road with a inlet that will be larger than the diameter of your tube which multiples the volume of air going into it.
Plus you are sticking it in the airstream at 100kph in a dirty place which it isn't designed to do.
Then to add to this you have the inlets on the side of the van which are about 8 times the size of the tube you are using acting as an vent as they are in the smooth air stream along the side of the van exhausting air out sucking air against your engine fan - Like taking your finger off a bong vent.
This will cause the fan in the tube to run at a very high speed.

So question is do you know why the rear vents on the Vanagon are recessed into the bodywork?
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flemcadiddlehopper
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, to me, this says that the best place to collect air would be at the front of the vehicle. Taking air from where it is at it's highest pressure and adding it to where it is at it's lowest pressure.

people need to understand that not all design decisions are made by the designers or engineers. The final say comes from the bean counters. Vehicles are designed to just last to the warranties end.

Gordo.
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Sambafraser
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The blue is high pressure, pink is low pressure.
Look under your van and it ain't as smooth as your roof.

There is no heat from the radiator, piping, engine, bong or aliens. The block behind the van is a spoiler Laughing

Here are some more wind tunnel test models of the VW Van.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cobb wrote:
Clara wrote:

Why is it hot under the front of the vanagon?


Radiator perhaps? Rolling Eyes


Good Lord!

Any ideas on the small UFO following the Vanagon? Perhaps a drone from the mother ship?
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Derek Cobb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clara wrote:

Why is it hot under the front of the vanagon?


Radiator perhaps? Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clara wrote:
Sambafraser wrote:
zombievws wrote:
sooooo, whats the difference in running no decklid or having one with a dried out or missing seal? a dune buggie does just fine

This is from the Vanagon punters. The pink swriling bit behind the van is the concern for an aircooled bus. As it will suck this preheated air back.


Link


The reason they stuck the vent up high was so it doesn't suck up all the dirt and road grime not just it looked cool.


And we know that splits and bays have the same swirl to the back of the bus from the oil spots on the back of any leaky bus.

A bug has a different shape, any one have a link to a similar clip for a bug?

What is that hot floating thing at the top behind the vanagon? A UFO following it?
Why is it hot under the front of the vanagon?


I think the different colors are to show pressure not temperature. Is the pink, therefore, low pressure?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to stick my head in here and hope I don't get it kicked. Concerning that air duct to the bilge fan to the rear box: it would flow more air if you had a parallel duct that branched before the fan and in that duct you put a gravity check flap.
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sambafraser wrote:
zombievws wrote:
sooooo, whats the difference in running no decklid or having one with a dried out or missing seal? a dune buggie does just fine

This is from the Vanagon punters. The pink swriling bit behind the van is the concern for an aircooled bus. As it will suck this preheated air back.


Link


The reason they stuck the vent up high was so it doesn't suck up all the dirt and road grime not just it looked cool.


And we know that splits and bays have the same swirl to the back of the bus from the oil spots on the back of any leaky bus.

A bug has a different shape, any one have a link to a similar clip for a bug?

What is that hot floating thing at the top behind the vanagon? A UFO following it?
Why is it hot under the front of the vanagon?
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flemcadiddlehopper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sambafraser wrote:
zombievws wrote:
sooooo, whats the difference in running no decklid or having one with a dried out or missing seal? a dune buggie does just fine

This is from the Vanagon punters. The pink swriling bit behind the van is the concern for an aircooled bus. As it will suck this preheated air back.


Link


The reason they stuck the vent up high was so it doesn't suck up all the dirt and road grime not just it looked cool.


Was this an air cooled vanagon? If so was the engine revving at the time of this air pressure video?

Gordo.
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flemcadiddlehopper
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been on SoCal freeways...they are either one of two things, a super speedway, or a parking lot.

Which does the lid open work on?


Gordo.
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doc hopper Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Bus Cooling Reply with quote

I have two buses, one with a dual carb 1700, one with a dual carb 1600. Both are bone stock re: cams, compression.
I live in So Cal, so freeway travel can sometimes be a "heat em up" problem. I just prop open the decklids for about a 30 degree drop in temperature.
I know, I know.... can't possibly work. Except that it does as evidenced by the Berg Oil Temp sensors that turn off that flickering oil light once the lids are propped.
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Sambafraser
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zombievws wrote:
sooooo, whats the difference in running no decklid or having one with a dried out or missing seal? a dune buggie does just fine

This is from the Vanagon punters. The pink swriling bit behind the van is the concern for an aircooled bus. As it will suck this preheated air back.


Link


The reason they stuck the vent up high was so it doesn't suck up all the dirt and road grime not just it looked cool.
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cru62 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flemcadiddlehopper wrote:
Derek Cobb wrote:
A dune buggy isn't a bug or a bus. Much lighter weight, less heat generated.

The problem with no deck lid is the heat that was just under the engine can curl up in the low pressure area behind the car and take a second trip through the engine. It's really hard to cool an engine with hot air. It's like breathing under the blankets. You can do it for a bit, but eventually that recycled air gets so hot you can't stand it anymore.


Really it happens much faster than that....more like farting with your head under the blankets, a "covered wagon".

gordo.


I thought it was a "dutch oven".
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cobb wrote:
A dune buggy isn't a bug or a bus. Much lighter weight, less heat generated.

The problem with no deck lid is the heat that was just under the engine can curl up in the low pressure area behind the car and take a second trip through the engine. It's really hard to cool an engine with hot air. It's like breathing under the blankets. You can do it for a bit, but eventually that recycled air gets so hot you can't stand it anymore.


Really it happens much faster than that....more like farting with your head under the blankets, a "covered wagon".

gordo.
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Derek Cobb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A dune buggy isn't a bug or a bus. Much lighter weight, less heat generated.

The problem with no deck lid is the heat that was just under the engine can curl up in the low pressure area behind the car and take a second trip through the engine. It's really hard to cool an engine with hot air. It's like breathing under the blankets. You can do it for a bit, but eventually that recycled air gets so hot you can't stand it anymore.
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zombievws
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooooo, whats the difference in running no decklid or having one with a dried out or missing seal? a dune buggie does just fine
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Porsche pulley is a rsult of upping the amperage of my alternator. It needs to run faster to get into the charging window. The added cooling was a "bonus". I'm honestly looking at leaning out more or raising the CR to get the temps back up....those both have wheel turning improvement.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short of having a manometer to measure the air pressure, the next best thing is the hose in the bottle with water

If you put your hand over the carb top, the motor will die, but blocking off the vents as an experiment only forces the motor to suck from other places. Gaps, leaks, what not.

I still think a big fan/big carbed motor will run negative air pressure

The Germans def did not plan for us doing what we are doing now, although too bad we cant get some consultation from them
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