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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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 Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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Greetings to all,
I'm involved in a little research project right now, and I have a question or two. All the wiring diagrams I've seen for the 181 describe the switch for the windshield wipers as a knob on the dash. Those of us with Things built for the U.S. have a steering column-mounted switch similar to the turn signal/high beam switch.
To those of you who own or are familiar with 182's or European 181's,
Is the dash mounted switch military only?
Common to all European 181/2's?
Did European versions switch over to the column-mounted switch, and if so, in what year?
What's the story?
Part 2: front turn signals.
Is it safe to assume that the turn signal on the left is exclusive to Europe and the one on the right is exclusive to the Americas?
Thank you in advance for the answers to these admittedly odd questions. |
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Ferretkona
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Joined: December 03, 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Columbia, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Part 2: front turn signals.
Is it safe to assume that the turn signal on the left is exclusive to Europe and the one on the right is exclusive to the Americas? |
That early turn signal is on a late fender. On the early thing it has a smaller boss.
_________________
74 181 Thing
2008 Ford Sport Trac V8 4x4
2008 Ford Escape V6 |
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SilverThing 
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Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Is the dash mounted switch military only?
Common to all European 181/2's?
Did European versions switch over to the column-mounted switch, and if so, in what year?
What's the story?
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The one Euro 181 (ex-military) I have seen in person was an early 73 and it had the dash mounted wiper switch, was a swing axle, and had the earlier style steering wheel.
Now I've heard/read that the steering wheel was the earlier two spoke style on all swing axle 181s and was switched to the later four spoke style with the introduction of IRS in the middle of 73. I would presume that the pre-IRS 181s had the dash mounted switch and the IRS 181's have the column mounted switch. I've gone through all of the pictures I've saved to my computer and they seem to confirm this. This includes the few pictures I have of 182 and civilian euro 181.
I'm interested to hear if this is indeed the case.
Hope this helps. |
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SilverThing
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Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I just reviewed my military wiring diagrams and the ones I have for August '69 and August '71 both show the dash mount type switch. They are both the earlier style diagram which shows relative locations of items. I also have a diagram for post April '73 which is the later style diagram similar to the diagram that was issued to US dealers for the Thing. It doesn't give any indication of what kind of switch it is (just like the US diagram).
Here's a link to the post April 73 diagram: http://www.walterlohbeck.homepage.t-online.de/strolpgr.jpg Look for the switch labeled 'E' around 40 and 41. 'Scheibenwischerschalter' is windshield washer switch. |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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That's the diagram I've been working from. You have a very clean version.
This is the only diagram I've seen that shows the column switch. It's for a Ghia.
Does anyone out there have a European 181 with a steering column wiper switch? |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Does anyone out there have a European 181 with a steering column wiper switch? |
I do  . Here's my dash (1976 euro/civilian 181) :
(That one to show it's a euro...  )
Pierre
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Part 2: front turn signals.
Is it safe to assume that the turn signal on the left is exclusive to Europe and the one on the right is exclusive to the Americas?
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Yes, it's safe to assume that. It was the same on beetles : small T/S in Europe, big ones in the US. Europe never had those big front T/S. On Euro beetles, the front T/S switched from small, top of fender mounted to into the front bumper. The 181s always kept the same front T/S.
About the wiper switch, I think SilverThing is right.
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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SilverThing
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Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
That's the diagram I've been working from. You have a very clean version.
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I actually found that using google (it is amazing what you can find with a little knowledge of German). I was trying to find the version that I have on my computer, but figured that one would work. The version I have on my computer is actually 5 or 6 more zoomed in images, but the one I linked is decent enough. |
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Captain Spalding
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Pierre G wrote: |
. . . small T/S in Europe, big ones in the US. Europe never had those big front T/S. On Euro beetles, the front T/S switched from small, top of fender mounted to into the front bumper. The 181s always kept the same front T/S.
About the wiper switch, I think SilverThing is right. |
Thanks gentlemen.
All the component-based diagrams (the style that's like the Ghia one I referenced) I've seen would indicate that the Euro 181 front turn signals are smaller bulbs like "city lights" in the headlamp. Does that seem right?
By the way, I'm working on vector versions of both the component-based diagram (the style of the Ghia diagram I posted) and the "flow chart" diagram (like the one that SilverThing referenced), so that one can zoom in on the details without loss of resolution. I have a notion of putting together 2 versions of each - US spec and Euro spec, so I'm trying to get all my facts sorted out.
Does anyone have a component-based diagram for the 181 dated from the latter half of 1973, that shows the wiper switch on the column? |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
All the component-based diagrams (the style that's like the Ghia one I referenced) I've seen would indicate that the Euro 181 front turn signals are smaller bulbs like "city lights" in the headlamp. Does that seem right?
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No, the bulbs are standard like the ones you have on the rear T/S in the taillights : 21watts.
About the diagram, are you registered on Pierre-J Macua's site (www.181spirit.com) ? I think you could find them there. I'm gonna check...
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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Doc*181
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Joined: December 09, 2003
Posts: 479
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:49 am Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
Greetings to all,
I'm involved in a little research project right now, and I have a question or two. All the wiring diagrams I've seen for the 181 describe the switch for the windshield wipers as a knob on the dash. Those of us with Things built for the U.S. have a steering column-mounted switch similar to the turn signal/high beam switch.
To those of you who own or are familiar with 182's or European 181's,
Is the dash mounted switch military only?
Common to all European 181/2's?
Did European versions switch over to the column-mounted switch, and if so, in what year?
What's the story?
Part 2: front turn signals.
Is it safe to assume that the turn signal on the left is exclusive to Europe and the one on the right is exclusive to the Americas?
Thank you in advance for the answers to these admittedly odd questions. |
My '77 (mexican made) euro181 has the steering column mounted lever.
Mabey they changed this when they changed the steering wheel from 2-spoke to 4-spoke? (mid 1973?)
The left picture has the euro lens, on the right the US lens. The white car is a late euro car because the older ones had smaller bases where the lens fitted. You can see very good on the picture that the base is to large for that small indicator. Because in later production they used 1 style of wing (where both euro and US lens could be mounted on).
_________________
Thing stuff:
http://vw181.skynetblogs.be/ |
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kubelmann
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Joined: April 13, 2003
Posts: 3266
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:56 am Post subject: |
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There is a connection between the steering wheel and the wiper switch. The early wheel went with the dash switch which was/is pn 141 955 517 (ghia part, like the Thing pan) When the wheel changed so did the switch. The factory assembled parts as available for non-US Things so, two different wiper switches were installed as a joined couple with a two spoke or four spoke wheel. The wiring for a dash switch and column switch are different. Front fenders are also different. The early fenders with the small front turn signal lights are funny. Some have headlight cover tabs and some do not. The parts differences go on and on... To make it even more complex, the wiper motors also had different terminal blocks when the wiper switch changed from dash to steering column. Thus the confusion about the wiper motor differences from year to year. And so on....
Last edited by kubelmann on Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Hey Captain,
I found this on PJ's website. There's a '75 military one too. Did you check ? Do you want me to post the '75 ? Do you want it by e-mail (large file : this one is reduced)...?
Pierre
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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SilverThing
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Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:32 am Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| Captain Spalding wrote: |
By the way, I'm working on vector versions of both the component-based diagram (the style of the Ghia diagram I posted) and the "flow chart" diagram (like the one that SilverThing referenced), so that one can zoom in on the details without loss of resolution. I have a notion of putting together 2 versions of each - US spec and Euro spec, so I'm trying to get all my facts sorted out. |
I think the trick with Euro Spec will be the fact that there were a number of changes and variations. There are the model year changes, RHD vs LHD (not sure wiring is significantly different, but I could be wrong), and M63 option code and variations thereof (radio cars for example). I'm not suggesting you don't do it; I'm just pointing out that Euro spec isn't one unified thing. I'd be willing to offer the few diagrams I have saved to my computer, but I suspect that you might already have the same ones I have.
| Captain Spalding wrote: |
| Does anyone have a component-based diagram for the 181 dated from the latter half of 1973, that shows the wiper switch on the column? |
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe an official VW component-based diagram exists for later model VWs. I have a page here in my repair manual entitled "How to Read 73 and Later Diagrams" (which may or may not be official VW) that seems to indicate that VW switched to the 'flow chart' style of diagram and discontinued the component based diagram. If I had both, I would work out of both, but since I only have the flow chart style, that is what I use and what I am most comfortable with.
| Pierre G wrote: |
I found this on PJ's website. There's a '75 military one too. Did you check ? Do you want me to post the '75 ? Do you want it by e-mail (large file : this one is reduced)...? |
I've always had difficulty with 181spirit.com (perhaps its due to my poor French...I should work on that). I'd be appreciative if you posted the '75 Military diagram or gave us directions on how to get to it on 181spirit. |
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SilverThing
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Joined: July 19, 2004
Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| SilverThing wrote: |
| Pierre G wrote: |
I found this on PJ's website. There's a '75 military one too. Did you check ? Do you want me to post the '75 ? Do you want it by e-mail (large file : this one is reduced)...? |
I've always had difficulty with 181spirit.com (perhaps its due to my poor French...I should work on that). I'd be appreciative if you posted the '75 Military diagram or gave us directions on how to get to it on 181spirit. |
Never mind, I made an account and found it. |
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Pierre G
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| SilverThing wrote: |
Never mind, I made an account and found it. |
Glad you did  . 181spirit is a great resource...especially for french people  It can be a 'lil bit harder for non-french speaking people. If I can help for translations or help you find a info you want, let me know.
Pierre
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: European version 181/2 questions . . . |
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| SilverThing wrote: |
| Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe an official VW component-based diagram exists for later model VWs. I have a page here in my repair manual entitled "How to Read 73 and Later Diagrams" (which may or may not be official VW) that seems to indicate that VW switched to the 'flow chart' style of diagram and discontinued the component based diagram. If I had both, I would work out of both, but since I only have the flow chart style, that is what I use and what I am most comfortable with. |
I've never seen a late model version of the component based diagram either. I'm making it from scratch using a 1969 181 component based diagram and a 1973 181 flow chart diagram. Personally I'm more comfortable with the flow chart as well. Not so many intersecting wires to pick through. But I know a lot of people who are totally lost with the flow chart and like having the points of reference that the components provide. So I'm doing both. |
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SilverThing
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Posts: 810
Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like a cool project. Let me know if you need any more help. I have digital copies of several wiring diagrams if you need any. August 1969 Civil (German and now French), August 1969 M63 (German), August 1971 M63 (German and now French), April 1973 (English-paper copy only, German, and now French), and 1975 M63 (also French). |
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SilverThing
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Location: Everett
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Took me a little bit, but I finally re-found (found again?) the site where I originally got my German Schaltpläne. http://www.bleeker.eu/electra.htm
Between that site and 181spirit.com you should have access to all of the schematics I posses (minus English April 1973 which I only presently have a paper copy of). |
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SilverThing wrote: |
| Sounds like a cool project. Let me know if you need any more help. |
Thanks. |
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