Author |
Message |
vanagonforever Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Baltimore, MD
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Thinking of buying a bay with low compression |
|
|
I'm a Vanagon guy and have never messed with an air cooled engine but I've been toying with the idea of buying a bay. I'm looking at a 76 Westy but the current owner says there is no compression in one cylinder and another is losing compression. I've had trouble getting information from the guy over email but I know that the bus has a type 4 engine and I assume it is a stock 2.0. Based on that tiny bit of information would you kind folks expect that the only way I am going to make the bus a good strong runner is to do a full rebuild of the engine?
If I am looking at a full rebuild I noticed that the bay FAQ estimated $1200 as the total cost of a rebuild if I either do it myself or buy a rebuilt long block from somebody, do the replacement, and then ship back my old engine. Is that information still acurate? The FAQ mentioned the Bus Depot having rebuilt long blocks but I don't see anything on their site that mentions such a thing. I've also been toying with the idea of buying a camper special and putting it in but I'm not sure I want to start this project of with such a large investment. Any thoughts?
Thanks and my apologies if this is stuff you guys hear all the time. I tried to use the search but I haven't been able to find exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again! _________________ 1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
theizzardking Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008 Posts: 2097 Location: seattle
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yeah i'd say that engine is on the way out a short term fix might be new heads and p&c's, but really that will in the end just be money down the tubes, if i were you i'd go the camper special option if you have the loot, and if thats the way your going just talk to jake raby, he'll go the extra length to make sure your install and build go as painless as possible, one of the reason jakes motors cost so much is because of the level of r&d involved and the amount of support you get from him personally. well at least thats my understanding of it, not to mention it IS the badass of the bay community. 1200 seems a bit cheap to me for a rebuilt long block but i'm sure it can be had...my type 1 cost me 500 more than that for mildy upgraded from stock. type 4's are quite a bit more expensive.
these are just my observations, i'd wait for a real type 4 guy to come in here and see what they have to say.
anyways whats he want for the bus with a dying/dead engine? _________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
'71 westie "the wanderer" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
theizzardking Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2008 Posts: 2097 Location: seattle
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i'll get this out of the way too, got any pics? _________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
'71 westie "the wanderer" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wvengineer Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Petersburg, West Virginia
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not an expert or anything, but I'll add my two cents.
First how much is the bus? How much are you wanting to spend? Is the body/interior in great shape? How's the electrical (lights work and what not)? In my opinion the body, chassis and interior are more important than the engine. If you could get a great deal on an otherwise great bus, and then dropped a camper special in it you would really have something. I'm basing that on the reputation of the engine, I've only ordered mine. Also I'm not sure those numbers are correct for rebuilding the engine if you do it correctly. I also don't know of a lot of options when if comes to buying Type 4 longblocks. _________________ My Resto Thread
1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Soon to be repainted Sage Green with a Camper Special in it!) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanagonforever Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Baltimore, MD
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still have not been able to see the bus in person. The owner is a fairly tough guy to get in touch with. I'd post the pictures but I'm pretty excited about this bus and I'd hate to get somebody else excited about it before it is parked in my driveway. I'm sure you bay folks aren't like that but those splitty guys have made me paranoid. _________________ 1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would plan on spending about $3000 or a bit more to get a rebuilt from one of the california boys that do the mass builds....AVP and guys like that.
A CS is really not much more than that considering what you get.
Plug your I-pod into this.....
http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
patayres Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2009 Posts: 991 Location: Bend, Orygun
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's safe to at least double (and realistically triple) that amount ($1200) for a good quality rebuild. An AVP engine can be had for $1650 + core, but read around here as much as you can before making that decision. _________________ 1975 Westfalia Helsinki - 1800 EFI w/ Pertronix
1965 Singlecab - 1600dp
yuthi'so'coro |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1200.00?
That won't even a buy a properly prepared set of heads for one of these engines.
You WILL get exactly what you pay for. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nica Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005 Posts: 618 Location: Bogotá, Colombia
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
aaaa maybe someone just left the valves really tight and they are open?? It can happen, once when my valves were way out of adjustment the compression test red 15 PSI, a valve adjustment and 300 mi later it was back to 125 PSI |
|
Back to top |
|
|
towd Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2458
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1200$ would cover a T1 engine. you do the work .. on a T4 think $4000 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Traveling Writer Samba Scribe
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 1112 Location: Florence, Italy
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Other dude was right on: If the body is straight, never wrecked, never flooded, and not a spot of rust on it, then who cares about the engine. You'll get it sorted out. But rust will mess you up good in the long run!
Oh, and even I know 1200 bucks will get you nothing at all vis a vis a rebuilt type 4 engine....and if anyone tries to sell one to you for that price, please report them in the feedback page!! _________________ Cheers,
Davi
1977 2.0 FI Westy
2011 1200cc Yamaha Super Tenere
1976 Feet (they work surprisingly well) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
engine rebuilds from Jake Raby at top notch....and the CS kit you put together starts at $4100. but its like having a new engine.
The two companys I trust at all for a stock rebuild are:
BostonBob
Headflowmasters.com
both have long blocks for $2500 but aren't Raby engines....
depends on what you want to do with the bus. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
$3K - $5K on a Type 4 to properly rebuild it depending upon what you find when you tear it down. Low compression can be cyls worn, cam gone, valve seat sinking cracked heads etc. Offer him $4k less than what it is worth with a perfect motor and you will be close assuming that there is no other major gremlins in it like rust or major damaged body panels. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanagonforever Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Baltimore, MD
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks so much for all of the info. I thought that $1200 figure sounded quite optimistic so I'm glad to confirm that. I've also started listening to the aircooled technology pod casts to try to learn more about air cooled engines. Thanks so much for making those Jake. I'm really enjoying them and love that a guy like you exists. Its great to hear that the engines are alive and well. I've got to say that it is hard not to get excited about what you guys are doing. Now all I've got to do is get that bus. If I could just get the guy to call me back. Ahhh VWs.... _________________ 1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Another option is for you to keep looking for a bus with a decent engine. If you have some money to spend (and you must if you are considering a rebuild) you should be able to find one. Don't be too anxious. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
atmellovw Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2006 Posts: 1652 Location: Minnesota
|
Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
That is a nice bus. Casey used to be a frequent poster on this forum. Having recently moved from the northwest area of Baltimore I know that there are not too many busses around there. I do recall a blue '69 for sale at a motorcyle dealer (Victory Cycle?) on Rt. 140 between Reisterstown and Westminster (next to a big Royal Farms store). I think it he was asking about $3000. _________________ 1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanagonforever Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2007 Posts: 211 Location: Baltimore, MD
|
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dang! Looks like the bus got away from me. I'm curious to hear if you guys think it was as good of a deal as I did. Here was the ad that I responded to:
"I'm listing my father's '76 VW westfalia for him. The Odometer reads 95k He bought it in '97 from bus depot and had the engine rebuilt, and the entire front end replaced. There were several other things rebuilt on it which he can't remember, but those were the two main ones. The bus was then painted in the summer of 2007. The body on it is really great and has minimal rust and holes. Just look at the pictures! This would be a perfect example to restore. The vehicle has green plaid interior which is in decent shape, along with the original stove/fridge/sink combo which he never bothered using. The bus will start, but it has lost compression in one of the cylinders, and a second one is losing pressure. It comes with a brand new canvas for the pop-up camper part which has yet to be installed, in addition to a cover which is about a year old. He would be thrilled to get $3500 for the vehicle but would take any reasonable offer. I can send additional photos if needed. "
Here are the photos:
I got some larger versions from the owner that made the bus look a lot better than these do. As far as I know, the guy sold it for the asking price and must have been contacted by the guy a few hours after his listing went up. Oh well, there will be others... _________________ 1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
VWBusMan1 Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 333 Location: Your Nation's Capital
|
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: You snooze... |
|
|
you lose as they say. Not trying to make you feel bad yet you asked the question. IMHO that was a real good deal. And, if you've been in aircooleds as long as some of us you always have a back up engine in the works so one dying is no biggie.
Good luck on your hunt, Mark _________________ '79 Beige Westy, Deluxe, 2L, FI (4 sale on Samba)
Honda CB 350 (mostly chained to my fence)
2 good feet for '58s |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Marv [UK] Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009 Posts: 2225 Location: UK
|
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
shame,
it might just have been something as simple as a quick valve lap and clearance reset and / or a new set of piston rings.....
a days work and perhaps $50 on parts.
Might have cost a few grand though.... thats why they call it a gamble |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|