Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Thinking of buying a bay with low compression
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Thinking of buying a bay with low compression Reply with quote

I'm a Vanagon guy and have never messed with an air cooled engine but I've been toying with the idea of buying a bay. I'm looking at a 76 Westy but the current owner says there is no compression in one cylinder and another is losing compression. I've had trouble getting information from the guy over email but I know that the bus has a type 4 engine and I assume it is a stock 2.0. Based on that tiny bit of information would you kind folks expect that the only way I am going to make the bus a good strong runner is to do a full rebuild of the engine?

If I am looking at a full rebuild I noticed that the bay FAQ estimated $1200 as the total cost of a rebuild if I either do it myself or buy a rebuilt long block from somebody, do the replacement, and then ship back my old engine. Is that information still acurate? The FAQ mentioned the Bus Depot having rebuilt long blocks but I don't see anything on their site that mentions such a thing. I've also been toying with the idea of buying a camper special and putting it in but I'm not sure I want to start this project of with such a large investment. Any thoughts?

Thanks and my apologies if this is stuff you guys hear all the time. I tried to use the search but I haven't been able to find exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again!
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
theizzardking
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
theizzardking is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i'd say that engine is on the way out a short term fix might be new heads and p&c's, but really that will in the end just be money down the tubes, if i were you i'd go the camper special option if you have the loot, and if thats the way your going just talk to jake raby, he'll go the extra length to make sure your install and build go as painless as possible, one of the reason jakes motors cost so much is because of the level of r&d involved and the amount of support you get from him personally. well at least thats my understanding of it, not to mention it IS the badass of the bay community. 1200 seems a bit cheap to me for a rebuilt long block but i'm sure it can be had...my type 1 cost me 500 more than that for mildy upgraded from stock. type 4's are quite a bit more expensive.

these are just my observations, i'd wait for a real type 4 guy to come in here and see what they have to say.

anyways whats he want for the bus with a dying/dead engine?
_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
'71 westie "the wanderer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
theizzardking
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2008
Posts: 2097
Location: seattle
theizzardking is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll get this out of the way too, got any pics?
_________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
'71 westie "the wanderer"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wvengineer
Samba Member


Joined: August 06, 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Petersburg, West Virginia
wvengineer is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not an expert or anything, but I'll add my two cents.

First how much is the bus? How much are you wanting to spend? Is the body/interior in great shape? How's the electrical (lights work and what not)? In my opinion the body, chassis and interior are more important than the engine. If you could get a great deal on an otherwise great bus, and then dropped a camper special in it you would really have something. I'm basing that on the reputation of the engine, I've only ordered mine. Also I'm not sure those numbers are correct for rebuilding the engine if you do it correctly. I also don't know of a lot of options when if comes to buying Type 4 longblocks.
_________________
My Resto Thread

1977 Champagne Edition I Bus (Soon to be repainted Sage Green with a Camper Special in it!)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have not been able to see the bus in person. The owner is a fairly tough guy to get in touch with. I'd post the pictures but I'm pretty excited about this bus and I'd hate to get somebody else excited about it before it is parked in my driveway. I'm sure you bay folks aren't like that but those splitty guys have made me paranoid. Smile
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would plan on spending about $3000 or a bit more to get a rebuilt from one of the california boys that do the mass builds....AVP and guys like that.

A CS is really not much more than that considering what you get.

Plug your I-pod into this.....

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
patayres
Samba Member


Joined: March 20, 2009
Posts: 991
Location: Bend, Orygun
patayres is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's safe to at least double (and realistically triple) that amount ($1200) for a good quality rebuild. An AVP engine can be had for $1650 + core, but read around here as much as you can before making that decision.
_________________
1975 Westfalia Helsinki - 1800 EFI w/ Pertronix
1965 Singlecab - 1600dp

yuthi'so'coro
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake Raby
Samba Member


Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
Jake Raby is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1200.00?
That won't even a buy a properly prepared set of heads for one of these engines.

You WILL get exactly what you pay for.
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Nica
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 618
Location: Bogotá, Colombia
Nica is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aaaa maybe someone just left the valves really tight and they are open?? It can happen, once when my valves were way out of adjustment the compression test red 15 PSI, a valve adjustment and 300 mi later it was back to 125 PSI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
towd
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2005
Posts: 2458

towd is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1200$ would cover a T1 engine. you do the work .. on a T4 think $4000
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Traveling Writer
Samba Scribe


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 1112
Location: Florence, Italy
Traveling Writer is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other dude was right on: If the body is straight, never wrecked, never flooded, and not a spot of rust on it, then who cares about the engine. You'll get it sorted out. But rust will mess you up good in the long run!

Oh, and even I know 1200 bucks will get you nothing at all vis a vis a rebuilt type 4 engine....and if anyone tries to sell one to you for that price, please report them in the feedback page!! Shocked
_________________
Cheers,
Davi

1977 2.0 FI Westy
2011 1200cc Yamaha Super Tenere
1976 Feet (they work surprisingly well)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bleyseng
Samba Member


Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
Bleyseng is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

engine rebuilds from Jake Raby at top notch....and the CS kit you put together starts at $4100. but its like having a new engine.

The two companys I trust at all for a stock rebuild are:
BostonBob
Headflowmasters.com
both have long blocks for $2500 but aren't Raby engines....

depends on what you want to do with the bus.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$3K - $5K on a Type 4 to properly rebuild it depending upon what you find when you tear it down. Low compression can be cyls worn, cam gone, valve seat sinking cracked heads etc. Offer him $4k less than what it is worth with a perfect motor and you will be close assuming that there is no other major gremlins in it like rust or major damaged body panels.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for all of the info. I thought that $1200 figure sounded quite optimistic so I'm glad to confirm that. I've also started listening to the aircooled technology pod casts to try to learn more about air cooled engines. Thanks so much for making those Jake. I'm really enjoying them and love that a guy like you exists. Its great to hear that the engines are alive and well. I've got to say that it is hard not to get excited about what you guys are doing. Now all I've got to do is get that bus. If I could just get the guy to call me back. Ahhh VWs....
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
atmellovw
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2006
Posts: 1652
Location: Minnesota
atmellovw is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option is for you to keep looking for a bus with a decent engine. If you have some money to spend (and you must if you are considering a rebuild) you should be able to find one. Don't be too anxious.
_________________
1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Send this guy an e-mail since he lives down the road from you....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=805554
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
atmellovw
Samba Member


Joined: September 05, 2006
Posts: 1652
Location: Minnesota
atmellovw is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a nice bus. Casey used to be a frequent poster on this forum. Having recently moved from the northwest area of Baltimore I know that there are not too many busses around there. I do recall a blue '69 for sale at a motorcyle dealer (Victory Cycle?) on Rt. 140 between Reisterstown and Westminster (next to a big Royal Farms store). I think it he was asking about $3000.
_________________
1972 Westy ("Bubbles") - Pastel White - 1700(1974 MT) - Dual Solex
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanagonforever
Samba Member


Joined: July 29, 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Baltimore, MD
vanagonforever is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang! Looks like the bus got away from me. I'm curious to hear if you guys think it was as good of a deal as I did. Here was the ad that I responded to:

"I'm listing my father's '76 VW westfalia for him. The Odometer reads 95k He bought it in '97 from bus depot and had the engine rebuilt, and the entire front end replaced. There were several other things rebuilt on it which he can't remember, but those were the two main ones. The bus was then painted in the summer of 2007. The body on it is really great and has minimal rust and holes. Just look at the pictures! This would be a perfect example to restore. The vehicle has green plaid interior which is in decent shape, along with the original stove/fridge/sink combo which he never bothered using. The bus will start, but it has lost compression in one of the cylinders, and a second one is losing pressure. It comes with a brand new canvas for the pop-up camper part which has yet to be installed, in addition to a cover which is about a year old. He would be thrilled to get $3500 for the vehicle but would take any reasonable offer. I can send additional photos if needed. "

Here are the photos:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got some larger versions from the owner that made the bus look a lot better than these do. As far as I know, the guy sold it for the asking price and must have been contacted by the guy a few hours after his listing went up. Oh well, there will be others...
_________________
1986 2WD 2.1L WBX Vanagon Weekender
1983.5 1.9L WBX Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VWBusMan1
Samba Member


Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 333
Location: Your Nation's Capital
VWBusMan1 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: You snooze... Reply with quote

you lose as they say. Not trying to make you feel bad yet you asked the question. IMHO that was a real good deal. And, if you've been in aircooleds as long as some of us you always have a back up engine in the works so one dying is no biggie.

Good luck on your hunt, Mark
_________________
'79 Beige Westy, Deluxe, 2L, FI (4 sale on Samba)
Honda CB 350 (mostly chained to my fence)
2 good feet for '58s
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Marv [UK]
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
Marv [UK] is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shame,

it might just have been something as simple as a quick valve lap and clearance reset and / or a new set of piston rings.....

a days work and perhaps $50 on parts.

Might have cost a few grand though.... thats why they call it a gamble Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.