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Just what I need now, She is overheating
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iradi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Just what I need now, She is overheating Reply with quote

I made my homework, do a lot of search in Samba and other places, read and re-read the books that I have, but not a clue.

I use my car daily ( 24 miles from work to home 95% on highways), now the outside temp is beteween 95 F and 105 F and she start to overheat ( KG Coupe 74 ), when I am in the highway the gauge shows 176 F all the time, but when I take the exit and the internal roads the temp goes to 230 F.

I have a VDO gauge on the dash so I bought a dipstick temp and check yesterday when I arrived home, it shows the same 230 F. If a take the highway again the the temp goes down to 176 F at 65-70 mph.

I check the following :

All tins are in the place, no one missing, seals too.
Valves check
Timming is 7.5
Idle perfect and runs smooth, good powder
Last week I install the Berg 1.5 Sump
No leaks inside and outside
Oil 10W-40 Castrol
Thermostat and flaps working
93 Octane gasoline
Original Oil Pump

About two weeks ago I install the air conditioning, and the car is working nice, made the test with and without the AC and it is the same, I am thinking to buy the venturi ring, but I do not know if this will be the solution.

Thanks for your help.

Ivan.
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Ghiaddict
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you saying you have overheating even with the
air conditioning off?
A system that doesn't effect engine temps would be
something to see. What A/C system do you have?

Did you check the engine cooling fan intake area for something
that may have been sucked in and blocking air flow?
Is your firewall insulation good and tight against the metal?
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iradi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Vince, the A/C I bought from a Samba member but It is a complete mystery who maded becuase I wrote to ICE and Vintage Air and they told me that they wasn't.

It is very well made and works good, nice cooling.

Enclosed a pictures,

Thanks,

Ivan

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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the photo it appears your condenser or some other device is attached to the firewall right behind the cooling fan! You also have some large hoses in that area.

Its likely that at highway speeds the combination of airflow and engine RPMS turning the fan is enough to overcome these items. When you get off the highway and are driving the secondary roads, I presume it is at lower speeds with stops. Those items on the firewall are not allowing enough air in causing the overheating condition.

I would remove those items and test. AC condensers are usually mounted under the car.
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Last edited by NOVA Airhead on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Corwin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus those huge hoses directly above it. You're not getting enough air to the fan. You need to move all of that stuff out of there. mount it under the car, above the axles or something. Wink
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iradi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVA Airhead wrote:
From the photo it appears your condenser or some other device is attached to the firewall right behind the cooling fan! You also have some large hoses in that area.

Its likely that at highway speeds the combination of airflow and engine RPMS turning the fan is enough to overcome these items. When you get off the highway and are driving the secondary roads, I presume it is at lower speeds with stops. Those items on the firewall are not allowing enough air in causing the overheating condition.

I would remove those items and test. AC condensers are usually mounted under the car.


I know that this is not an orginial equipment but the condenser it is not in front of the cooling fan, I can try to put this hoses the high possible.

What do you think about the venturi ring ?

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keifernet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iradi wrote:
NOVA Airhead wrote:
From the photo it appears your condenser or some other device is attached to the firewall right behind the cooling fan! You also have some large hoses in that area.

Its likely that at highway speeds the combination of airflow and engine RPMS turning the fan is enough to overcome these items. When you get off the highway and are driving the secondary roads, I presume it is at lower speeds with stops. Those items on the firewall are not allowing enough air in causing the overheating condition.

I would remove those items and test. AC condensers are usually mounted under the car.


I know that this is not an orginial equipment but the condenser it is not in front of the cooling fan, I can try to put this hoses the high possible.

What do you think about the venturi ring ?

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Sure as hell looks like it's in front of the fan to me too... Shocked Confused

That's why I use GILMORE A/C systems, the condensers are mounted under the car with electric fans and work great.

I would contact Ed at Gilmore and see about a retrofit condenser and hose set up and get that out of the engine compartment and out of the way of the intake of air going to the fan. Or if you can move it out of there I have seen them mounted on the Ghia decklid under the vents where the rain tray would be on the late model. But you might have to add some sort of electric fan to keep air moving over it in traffic.
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iradi wrote:
NOVA Airhead wrote:
From the photo it appears your condenser or some other device is attached to the firewall right behind the cooling fan! You also have some large hoses in that area.

Its likely that at highway speeds the combination of airflow and engine RPMS turning the fan is enough to overcome these items. When you get off the highway and are driving the secondary roads, I presume it is at lower speeds with stops. Those items on the firewall are not allowing enough air in causing the overheating condition.

I would remove those items and test. AC condensers are usually mounted under the car.


I know that this is not an orginial equipment but the condenser it is not in front of the cooling fan, I can try to put this hoses the high possible.

What do you think about the venturi ring ?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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If its not in front of the fan, you can be sure its blocking the air flow. Nothing should be between the cooling tin and the firewall.
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Ghiaddict
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree.
Instead of a loose firewall insulation or a rag/paper
in the fan, it seems pretty obvious from your pics that all
that A/C equipment being located there at the fan intake
is the most likely cause of your overheating.
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keifernet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only that Nova but the heat a condenser puts off will be sucked through the fan and especially at low speeds that's going to preheat the air to above even the hot outside ambient temps.

This lesson was learned by many who stick those cheap ass "oil coolers" over the fan housing as per the "instructions" that come with the EMPI and other oil cooler kits. Rolling Eyes Sure, let's preheat the air for the air cooled engine to 200+ degrees... it will be FINE Laughing Wink
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Corwin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:

Sure as hell looks like it's in front of the fan to me too... Shocked Confused


Yeah...that thing is sitting square behind the fan intake. I'd be surprised if there were more than a inch clearance there. You've reduced airflow by at least 60% overall, not to mention the radiated heat as someone else has mentioned. You need to take the A/C system out and reinstall it under the car, out of the engine compartment. You've completely ruined any chance of that car running at proper temps. I'm actually shocked you're getting oil temps as low as you state with 100 degree weather. Shocked
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iradi
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I found finally the company who makes this kits, it is Ice.Inc www.iceac.com

I call them, explain the problem and they answer me that must be another problem, that this condenser that goes in the bay do not heat to much, and that the end of the condenser is far away from the edge of the fan in the shroud.

The other thing about putting heat into the bay, they explainme the main heating is in the other condenser that it is on the front part of the car and has a electric fan.

Also told me that they make a lot of test without any problem.

He told me that made a test running with the A/C off and see if it is overheating, and I allready do it with the same results as with the A/C on.

If you have any other alternatives please let me know, on the other case I will remove this part and try to see where I can install, not easy but I do not want to damage the engine.

Thanks for your comments.
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Corwin
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's more likely that your problem is blocking of the fan intake area than heat given off by the condenser. It needs to be moved.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, your fan is being blocked. Turn on a fan in your home if you have one then take a towel and block half of it where the incoming air would go and see what that does to the outgoing air flow.
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keifernet
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iradi wrote:
Ok I found finally the company who makes this kits, it is Ice.Inc www.iceac.com

I call them, explain the problem and they answer me that must be another problem, that this condenser that goes in the bay do not heat to much, and that the end of the condenser is far away from the edge of the fan in the shroud.

The other thing about putting heat into the bay, they explainme the main heating is in the other condenser that it is on the front part of the car and has a electric fan.

Also told me that they make a lot of test without any problem.


He told me that made a test running with the A/C off and see if it is overheating, and I allready do it with the same results as with the A/C on.

If you have any other alternatives please let me know, on the other case I will remove this part and try to see where I can install, not easy but I do not want to damage the engine.

Thanks for your comments.


What did you expect them to tell you? LOL

I would like to see a better picture of how close that condenser is to the opening of the fan housing. And for sure stick your hand on it when you just went for a drive and tell me how hot it is or put a thermometer back there, or shoot it with an infrared thermometer and tell me... IS IT HOT???

This is just one of the reasons I won't use the ICEair brand kits.
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iradi
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PROBLEM RESOLVED !!! , thanks for your comments and indications.

Yesterday after read all the post and arrived home I decided to take apart the condenser, today when I came to my office the temperature was all the time on 180 F range, even when I took the secondary roads.

Now I am on the beginning, what is the alternative place that I can put this condendser ?

This kit came with two, one is in the front under the beam with a fan, and the second one who was given me trouble.

Keifernet, I know that you have and A/C, how is your condenser distributions ?

Thanks again
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iradi wrote:
PROBLEM RESOLVED !!! , thanks for your comments and indications.

Yesterday after read all the post and arrived home I decided to take apart the condenser, today when I came to my office the temperature was all the time on 180 F range, even when I took the secondary roads.

Now I am on the beginning, what is the alternative place that I can put this condendser ?

This kit came with two, one is in the front under the beam with a fan, and the second one who was given me trouble.

Keifernet, I know that you have and A/C, how is your condenser distributions ?

Thanks again


So you removed it from the firewall and the problem went away? That is great news.

You want to mount it underneath the car. If you do a Search I am sure you will find photos. I have seen them mounted down by the rear axle - still in the air stream but out of the way for servicing the car or the condenser being damaged.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ure as hell looks like it's in front of the fan to me too...

<snip>
the condensers are mounted under the car with electric fans and work great.


I'd do what this guy does
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keifernet
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd contact Ed at Gilmore, tell him what you have and he can sell you parts to retro fit the double condenser's with electric fan that installs under the car.

http://www.gilmore-enterprises.net/

http://www.gilmore-enterprises.net/Air/Ghia.htm#
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