Felt Ring Retainer - does it exist?

[raygreenwood]

The original part # for the felt ring is 021-105-211. From looking at the original parts book for the 411/412 last night.....and from the notes from mt little black book I keep on my 412.....the felt ring came as a kit in a plastic baggy along with the steel retaining ring.

I'll see if any of my connections still has them in kit form in a baggy with the retaining ring. Ray

[SGKent]

Ray has thickened the plot. The felt ring we bought came from VW and came in a manila envelope.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Bleyseng]

never seen a retaining ring...hmm, 914 part number is 021-119-159A too and no retaining ring at the felt seal.

021-119-159A comes up as a Thermostat
Tcash
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70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles

[Mark]

[raygreenwood]

Thats the part. I have found them even a little thinner.

What I have done...is glue the felt ring into the metal insert...done.

Look really closely. See how that "ring" ...MIGHT...resemble the metal cup of a small shaft seal after you tear the lips out and sand away most of teh rubber covering on it? I made a very nice felt retaining ring that way a few years ago. I'll see if my little black book has the seal # I used in it. Ray

[Sage79]

OK -- now what do I do? I drove my ring out (see the prior pic) but I think it was pretty shot, that's why I thought it was the remains of the bearing. The felt ring from Bus Depot (as Ratwell states) I got was 111 105 311 vs. 021 105 311. Is there a difference? The one from BD too large to go in the flywheel hole so I don't see what the retainer would do unless the proper part is much smaller, which I doubt because there wouldn't much material between the I.D. which is correct for the O.D. of the input shaft, and the O.D. Do I need to obatain a retainer? How about the felt?

Dirk

[Wildthings]

Forget the felt, buy the Diesel pilot bearing and make the minor mods needed to install it.

[josh]

[Wildthings]

[raygreenwood]

I've seen a lot more of pilot bearing failure on other peoples vehicles than you would think there should be for such a simple part. It really only fails for one of three reasons.

(1) Improper greasing or improper grease. Meaning not enough grease in the first place and/or using grease without a high enough drop point in a hot running engine. The grease melts and runs out. This is usually the culprit of a screwed up clutch as well....with a big grease spot.

(2) Dust from the clutch getting into the grease due to not having a felt ring and running for a long time between having the engine out and cleaning out the old grease and grit

(3) having improper drivetrain alignment with too much flexing of the bell housing. This is actually very common. People who tend to drive with no rear hanger bar or bad hanger bar or body bushings...transfer flex to the case. It onoy takes a few thousandths of misalignment to the main shaft to screw up a needle bearing and grind into theshaft end.

So....and you think I would know this. What is the Diesel version of the bearing? Is that the solid bronze bushing? That would be smart actually. I se no need whatsoever tp have a needle bearing in this position.

In fact I could replace that needle with a Torlon bushing and you would never have to worry about it again. Ray

[Wildthings]

A Torlon would probably work great as well. Let us know if you are having any made.

[raygreenwood]

Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing?...a felt ring or wiper ring inside of the bearing? cool! Ray

[Wildthings]

[Vamstad]

BTW...I spoke to a rather reliable VW shop and they mentioned that they don't use the felt washer. They gave a "never done it and never had problems" reason for not installing it.

My needle bearing had a bunch of dust (rusty colored) all over it when I split the engine from the trans. The needles were no longer in the carrier but, didn't look destroyed mechanically. I am thinking that I broke the needle bearing when I split the engine from the trans but, who knows.

All I know is that I didn't have the felt and the needle bearing did have considerable contamination from the dust.
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Fear is the mind killer.
1979 Federal Westfalia
2.0 FI

[Wildthings]

I have heard of shops that intentionally run the bearings dry so they don't collect dust. I have had people tell me that this grease or that will fix the problem, or that using or not using the felt will. In other words nothing works most of the time for most people.

[tardfarmer]

Does this felt ring apply to my '71 bus, stock motor and trans? Does that bearing pictured above go in the gland nut? Just some questions i've had for long time. Thanks
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'71 deluxe seven seater, 1600 DP, OG paint, Pertronix ignition.

[germansupplyscott]

a stock OE type gland nut has the felt ring (and steel retainer ring) built into the nut.
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SL

[tardfarmer]

Gonna have to have a closer look at mine. It's installed but the motors out. It's funny, I ordered that bearing pictured above because It said it pertained to my make and model. Now I have two of them and no idea where it goes! I have the right engine, do they indeed go in my gland nut? (might never say that again ! ),thanks for the reply.
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'71 deluxe seven seater, 1600 DP, OG paint, Pertronix ignition.

[Lil Lulu]

What's the verdict- Hundreds of type 4's are rebuilt each year. There must be some consensus as to the need for this retainer. Most VW shops say it's NA.

Hmmm. Go through the pain in the ass it is to get the retainer or forget it .

RB
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'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus

'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002

'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles

[SGKent]

we got some from the BusDepot thanks to the help from people here.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin