After reading 1000's of post, I'm terrified to crank my eng!

[vaughn bros.]

I need opinions on what to expect from all this. I want some one to say,"Iz be okay". My first 8 engines I put together ran great. One engine even ran strong for 15 years on plugs and oil changes and vave adjustments only. But then I realized I wasn't measuring anything and was just lucky. Then one day (17 years ago) while being overpaid for doing something I love, I decided to start buying up the parts for a dream engine. A near stock size engine that runs good.
Keep in mind, its my dream engine and might not suit others.
I bought everything 3 to 4 times before settling on one item. 4 cases, 3 intake combos, 3 dist's, 4 P&C's, 4 rocker assy's, 5 pushrod sets, on and on. Engine from scratch with no used VW parts. Something was always wrong with the first part choice. No cam plug groove, made in china, didn't fit, too stupid, too tall and so on.
Now its:
High Roof 85mm bore case.
Scat 69mm Crank,8D,racer spacer, steel broach bolt.
Fan Guard Pullieys, grooved belt w/ tensioner.
Not using Full Flow.
C25 Scat Cam
CM straight Cut Gears.
Scat Lifters.
3/8 HD Pushrods.
Scat DP ProStreet Heads.
New DP End Runners, Empi 44EIS Single Intake, Empi 40/44EIS Carb.
CB 1.1:1 Rhino Rockers(9mm,Elephant Feet.)
87mm Mahle P&C. 8mm CM Head Studs, Teflon Buttons.
CB Maxi 3 Pump.
Scat Flywheel 12.5 lb.
Empi SS Push Rod Tubes.
Stock offset cooler.
No Fresh Air 36HP Tin everywhere. TIII cool tin.
1994 Bosch 009 w/points,red cap. Blue coil.
A1 Lowdown 1-3/4 Merged.
Current CR is 8.9:1.
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Through the years I became broke. So now it is most important not to spend one more dime or year waiting for the moment.
Now I am just about finished with my outdoor dream test stand to use the rest of my life. BUT, I started reading threads and everything I am using is known to either fail, not work at all, no track record cause it's stupid, or has a nickname like "uh uo 9", or "scat crywheel".
As I turn the engine over with plugs in the head, I just know it will run. But I am also terrified that after 17 years, It might run for 30 seconds and vomit Brazilian gasket material on my shoes. Photo below is one of the intake center section clearance phases(3 of 4 intake choices). Photo out of date.

Maybe I just have mental issues.

[Max Welton]

Was there a question in there somewhere?

Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
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[vaughn bros.]

The first sentence is my question. Sorry for the long engine description. Would anyone even bother to run this combo or should it be corrected now before putting it in the car? The big delay in getting this car running is a longer story, mostly financial.

[Max Welton]

[vaughn bros.]

I used the theory of the small oil hole in 4th main bearing to regulate oil flow to it, so I just plugged my pump and went for full flow. Then I said no, I did want to not chance the oil issue with no.4 main. I changed to the Bugpack Oil return fitting at rear relief port. Then I said no,there be a pump that does it all with no mods. So the case is plugged up there and the twin port maxi 3 for Type2's is being used. Did I go from Dumber to Dumbest?

[Sigurd]

Look, if I knew what you were asking, I could answer it. What oil system are you using? A traditional "full-flow" setup is a plugged pump, out to a filter, back to the main galley. Not a filter pump or a relief thingy. The first picture looked like a cover and a galley fitting, so I would use that. The small little restrictor plug on #4 doesn't have anything to do with full flow. So what's your question?

[Matthew]

The biggest problem I see is the 1 3/4" exhaust on a 1641. The exhaust is going to kill off your low end power and the cam and intake system is going to limit your top in power. You need an exhaust that matches the rest of the combo.
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1965 Beetle sedan
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[perrib]

Basically most stock rebuilt engines were built by feel. How many people could afford 20-40 hours labor building an engine. Everyone trusted the crank rods and bearings were going to be built perfect. As you assemble the parts you can feel the clearance. I had a cam and thrust bearing last week with zero clearance I did not need a tool to feel that. There is a big difference in feel every .001". Running 4,000 rpm one can get away with less attention to detail than running 6,000 to 10,000. That said the more you check and blue print the longer and better it may last/run. If the deck hight and cylinder volumes are way off you might have a crappy idle that won't adjust out. Even cheap lifters will last a long time on a stock application with break in lube and flat tappet cam oil. One night when out of new lifters I installed a set of Harry Webber regrounds with my FK 89 cam. Granted they only stayed in for 8 miles. Back then Johnson Lifters were the hot setup but like the Udo Becker cam followers of today hardly anyone bought them. I did not back them new Webers were $8 a set and regrounds $4. There was cheaper stuff but Harrys were made correct. While on the subject of oil use a full flow oil filter on your engine. Look at the oil strainer it lets chunks get to your bearings. I'm no innovator or expert I just was lucky enough to learn to listen to Dean Lowry, Gene Berg, Fumio and other racers who had already paid there dues. If it is going to keep you up at night spend the time the get a set of snap guages and a micrometer are less than $70. Chances are all the parts will be within VW factory spec. The only thing the would keep me up with your is the lack of an oil filter. Even the thin walls don't bother me my 17 year old 2180 at 19,000 miles had no blowby. They were not as pretty as 90.5s or 85.5s would of been but most of my stuff comes apart when I get bored. A 74x85.5 might warrant serious consideration if you have not purchased the crank. The mag. lifter bores and valve guides were shot from the VZ 30 style cam but this is normal wear and tear. The Weber new lifters looked like they had 60,000 miles on them but the Weber cam measured perfect. With the work I'm asking stock lifters to do Udo Beckers are a better choice for me. With the C25 cam you won't have any of these problems to worry about. Your exhaust needs to be a lot smaller. I don't know anything aboout those heads I hope they have high air speed. Read Jake Rabys posts about cooling tin. Like Gene Berg he spent the time to see what works best and told us. With 9.1 compression and the C 25 cam you may need to blend race gas. I ran 7.8 to 1 with my VZ 30 style cam and it pulled hard. I ran 9.4 to 1 and it needed 2 gallons of 110 with 8 gallons of 91 octane to pull a little harder. Stick with 7-7.5 to one, unless you like buying race gas. You will find dual carbs run better and pass emissions. I run a single off road and duals on the street. With duals my 2180 runs 2 seconds faster than with the single. Your straight cut gears are overkill but if you have them already use them. You said nothing about engine balancing with this combo like blueprinting you may not need it but it can not hurt. If there are any problems it will be a lot cheaper in the long run to find them before you run the engine.

[vaughn bros.]

[Max Welton]

[perrib]

[blankmange]

[perrib]

You asked about the in and out pump, they work and are a great soultion for a low rpm engine like yours especially when the engine is already assembled and you don't want to do the GB on the car drilling, reaming and tapping solution. Since the case was drilled and tapped before hand you wasted some cash. No matter which pump you chose, use only AN stlye or crimped hose connections for oil hoses. Too many people have lost an engine due to a hose clamp loosening up. One of the reasons for the restricter to #4 is to cut down on the volume of oil that has to be deflected back in the engine away from the pulley. It can be pressed in to deep so mark its position if you take it out. This has already been discussed to death.

[stealth67vw]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but your combo is mismatched. Scat 40 x 35.5 ported heads with a single Kadron and 1 3/4 exhaust =mismatch. C25 with 8.9:1 CR =mismatch unless your running 100+octane, 7.5-8:1 would be better especially running a single carb. Type 3 tins belong on a type 3, CB sells the correct type 1 tin in original VW flavor. Scat lifters belong in the trash can. High roof case is way overkill for a 1641 but since you have it, it will work. Unless you live at the equator, any single carb will benefit from heat risers. I tried running a single 34 Solex with no heat risers here on southern Oregon a few years ago (it's 95F right now) and the carb would turn into a block of ice after 5 miles on the highway and I would have to pull over and wait for the carb to thaw out. Those serpentine pulley set ups are great......for exploding fans, even if they are welded. Why fix a problem when it doesn't exist. A slipping belt will save you from exploding a fan, destroying the alternator, fan shroud, generator stand, head and barrel fins and what ever else an exploding fan will destroy.

I have been in your boat many times, it's taken me 13+ years to finish my "dream" 2165 and it's still on the engine stand after 9 months from being built. Most of it was waiting for quality parts and the right parts for the correct combo. I have been through 3 cranks, 5 sets of rods, 3 sets of heads, 4 cams, 2 cases, 2 sets of Webers, 3 set of venturis, 3 exhausts, 3 electric fuel pumps, 3 ignitions. I now feel comfortable enough to wring it out with confidence.
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John Bates
JB Machining Services
1967 street Bug 2276 w/ 48 IDAs, 2020lbs with driver
7.76 @ 89.55mph 1/8 mile
12.34 and 108.10 mph 1/4 mile

[vwracerdave]

You are gonna be very disappointed with your "dream" engine. You would have been much better off just building a stock 1600. Everything is a total mismatch.

Step up to dual Kads and step down to a 1 3/8" exhaust and you might salvage a decent engine out of your mess.

Good luck with your engine.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos

[miniman82]

'Dream engine' and '1641' is a oxymoron, they don't belong in the same sentence.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747

[Sigurd]

[dubkrzy]

What a waste
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[perrib]

I didn't know those heads had 40x35 size valves. I was pulling for your small engine but now I agree with stealth67vw. It is time to step back and reconsider your project. Besides what I mentioned you could turn it into a 1776, 1835 or 1915 to make up for the heads but then the combustion chambers will need reshaping. . You still need to do the changes already mentioned by everyone about the compresion, full flow oiling, preheat,etc. The serpentine belt should be ok with the C25 cam. If you were sold a defective set of Scat lifters the full flow filter will catch the debris that will destroy your crank. It will set you back a good $300-$400 to fix the damage. Thats why I have switched to Udo Becker cam followers. It is cheaper to use them than buy two sets of oil pumps, cam lifters, gaskets oil etc. With single springs and the 25 cam you may not have any cam lifter problems as long as you use cam lube and Brad Penn oil. You could also post an ad to swap for heads and exhaust to finish your dream 1641. Chances are many more people on The Samba in your boat but have not posted their situation but also need a cheap cure.

[vaughn bros.]

OK I get it. I makes good sense guys. The truth hurts so bad, I want to go out and buy a KIA.
I found someone to buy my exhaust system today for just 50.00 less than I paid(pretty good).
My empi single carb setup (like all others) came with ill fitting everything and broke choke assy., but I am still going to try to use it(w/new choke).
I am in talks with someone who will trade me new stock heads for my SCAT heads.I will now go with stock(new)heads. When this comes together, I can check Deck H., and CR. Shouldnt be a problem to get CR back to 89 octane levels. I might need just one more set of pushrods to cut up.
Lifters, I have some new OEM VW lifters and will investigate Udo Beckers. I will go to one of my earlier pumps and tattletale and keep full flow.
At this point I will be back to somewhat stock levels which aint too bad. I know a stock engine has satisfied me for almost 40 years and it looks like it can do it again. I can make all of these changes with little to no money so far.
I love the samba and its folks.