Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Idle problems DVDA? SVDA? 34 Pict 3
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks keith, I've been away from the computer all day....

By the way, my latest "master chart" of everything for upright engines, I made a couple of minor changes to it recently and it's here. It's MS Word doc file though:

http://members.trainorders.com/android/temp/CarbBaseFlangeNumbersA.doc

-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
webwalker Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2006
Posts: 2803
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
webwalker is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect! And thanks.

Keith,

You kindly offered me advice that got my Solex going without a rebuild. I'm actually looking forward to having a problem bad enough that I need to pay you to help me. Very Happy
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .81 4th
Click to view image
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed


Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
Towel Rail is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
Thanks keith, I've been away from the computer all day....

By the way, my latest "master chart" of everything for upright engines, I made a couple of minor changes to it recently and it's here. It's MS Word doc file though:

http://members.trainorders.com/android/temp/CarbBaseFlangeNumbersA.doc

-Andy


Shocked

That's pretty awesome.
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Czarlxxvii
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Greenville, SC
Czarlxxvii is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a cut and paste from a different thread that I incorrectly posted in the wrong place.

I hate to piggyback a thread, but my question is related to the same problem. I have a 74 super with AH engine code. It has a 34 pict 3 carb (Bocar) and an 034 distributor that has just recently been added. The Muir book says I should time it at 5 degrees ATDC . Old volks says a 74 Cali is 5 ATDC. A Federal 74 is 7.5 BTDC.

My issue is that my car has a blocked off EGR, but I believe has been owned in SC since it was new. I recently switched to an 034 dizzy from an 009. I had the 009 pretty well tuned considering the setup. It was at 7.5 BTDC. I have the 034 now, and I am trying to set it to 7.5 as well, but am I completely wrong? My quick setup seemed a little rough and it is overheating. I'm dialing it in a more precisely now, but I am wondering if I'm headed in the wrong direction. Someone please help, I have a roadtrip planned for Saturday.

Thanks in advance,
McCay

Edit: I just got back from a test drive with the timing set at 7.5 BTDC. It seems to run pretty well. We'll find out if it overheats when I drive out and back to work tomorrow. How do I tell I tell if the Bocar was meant for an SVDA or a DVDA? I'm assuming from this thread that if it was meant for DVDA then I could benefit from the pop rivet.
_________________
McCay
1974 Super Beetle
Daily Driver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Czarlxxvii
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Greenville, SC
Czarlxxvii is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question was that when I was adjusting the carb after setting the timing I couldn't seem to lean it out. Regardless of how much I turn the screw it didn't seem to make a difference. Should I wind it all the way in and then back it out?
_________________
McCay
1974 Super Beetle
Daily Driver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
keifernet is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czarlxxvii wrote:
Here's a cut and paste from a different thread that I incorrectly posted in the wrong place.

I hate to piggyback a thread, but my question is related to the same problem. I have a 74 super with AH engine code. It has a 34 pict 3 carb (Bocar) and an 034 distributor that has just recently been added. The Muir book says I should time it at 5 degrees ATDC . Old volks says a 74 Cali is 5 ATDC. A Federal 74 is 7.5 BTDC.

My issue is that my car has a blocked off EGR, but I believe has been owned in SC since it was new. I recently switched to an 034 dizzy from an 009. I had the 009 pretty well tuned considering the setup. It was at 7.5 BTDC. I have the 034 now, and I am trying to set it to 7.5 as well, but am I completely wrong? My quick setup seemed a little rough and it is overheating. I'm dialing it in a more precisely now, but I am wondering if I'm headed in the wrong direction. Someone please help, I have a roadtrip planned for Saturday.

Thanks in advance,
McCay

Edit: I just got back from a test drive with the timing set at 7.5 BTDC. It seems to run pretty well. We'll find out if it overheats when I drive out and back to work tomorrow. How do I tell I tell if the Bocar was meant for an SVDA or a DVDA? I'm assuming from this thread that if it was meant for DVDA then I could benefit from the pop rivet.


Bocar's all have the smaller hole in the throttle plate BUT still have the fitting for the DVDA... I guess they are supposed to be an "all purpose fit" but who can tell... As long as you have unused vac ports plugged and the advance for your SVDA going to the correct port on the LH side of the carb you should be fine.

And that your not using the screw ON THE THROTTLE ARM to try and set idle...


Czarlxxvii wrote:
Another question was that when I was adjusting the carb after setting the timing I couldn't seem to lean it out. Regardless of how much I turn the screw it didn't seem to make a difference. Should I wind it all the way in and then back it out?


This to me reeks of either a poorly tuned engine over all ( valve adjustment, plugs, point gap etc no vacuum leaks on intake or base of carb )

OR perhaps even too high of fuel pressure syndrome... making the carb hard to tune, small mixture screw useless in trying to tune the carb at idle. But as always there are several things you could have going wrong at once.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Czarlxxvii
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Greenville, SC
Czarlxxvii is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:


Bocar's all have the smaller hole in the throttle plate BUT still have the fitting for the DVDA... I guess they are supposed to be an "all purpose fit" but who can tell... As long as you have unused vac ports plugged and the advance for your SVDA going to the correct port on the LH side of the carb you should be fine.

And that your not using the screw ON THE THROTTLE ARM to try and set idle...


The vac ports are plugged and I'm not using the screw on the throttle arm.


keifernet wrote:

This to me reeks of either a poorly tuned engine over all ( valve adjustment, plugs, point gap etc no vacuum leaks on intake or base of carb )

OR perhaps even too high of fuel pressure syndrome... making the carb hard to tune, small mixture screw useless in trying to tune the carb at idle. But as always there are several things you could have going wrong at once.


I think the engine is turned well, but I'm still a noob so I could be wrong. The points are gapped at .016 and the dwell is dead on 50 degrees. The engine had just been rebuilt when I got the car in april. I adjusted the valves after about 200 miles. They were set at .006. I've probably driven it 500-600 miles since then. They may have tightened up though since the engine is still green. The plugs are new from the rebuild, and all the extra vac holes are plugged. What confused me is that the carb had no issues whatsoever with the 009 dizzy. It dialed right in when I timed it after the first valve adjustment. (Keith, can I get on the list for a Solex?)

After some more research, I'm even more confused about whether I should be at 7.5 BTDC or 5 ATDC. I'm assuming (big assumption on my part) that if it runs decently at 7.5 BTDC then it would run like crap at 5 ATDC.? [/quote]
_________________
McCay
1974 Super Beetle
Daily Driver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
keifernet is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czarlxxvii wrote:
keifernet wrote:


Bocar's all have the smaller hole in the throttle plate BUT still have the fitting for the DVDA... I guess they are supposed to be an "all purpose fit" but who can tell... As long as you have unused vac ports plugged and the advance for your SVDA going to the correct port on the LH side of the carb you should be fine.

And that your not using the screw ON THE THROTTLE ARM to try and set idle...


The vac ports are plugged and I'm not using the screw on the throttle arm.


keifernet wrote:

This to me reeks of either a poorly tuned engine over all ( valve adjustment, plugs, point gap etc no vacuum leaks on intake or base of carb )

OR perhaps even too high of fuel pressure syndrome... making the carb hard to tune, small mixture screw useless in trying to tune the carb at idle. But as always there are several things you could have going wrong at once.


I think the engine is turned well, but I'm still a noob so I could be wrong. The points are gapped at .016 and the dwell is dead on 50 degrees. The engine had just been rebuilt when I got the car in april. I adjusted the valves after about 200 miles. They were set at .006. I've probably driven it 500-600 miles since then. They may have tightened up though since the engine is still green. The plugs are new from the rebuild, and all the extra vac holes are plugged. What confused me is that the carb had no issues whatsoever with the 009 dizzy. It dialed right in when I timed it after the first valve adjustment. (Keith, can I get on the list for a Solex?)

After some more research, I'm even more confused about whether I should be at 7.5 BTDC or 5 ATDC. I'm assuming (big assumption on my part) that if it runs decently at 7.5 BTDC then it would run like crap at 5 ATDC.?


Correct, the only distributor that times retarded to 5 ATDC is the DVDA.... your SVDA "034" should time to 7.5 BTDC hose off at idle and should also stay at 7.5 at idle after you plug the hose back on. Should go to approx 30 revved up hose off and over to around 40 hose on (in the driveway under "no load" you will see it go that far if you have a degree pulley that is...it will not go that far when the car is driven/under load though)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Czarlxxvii
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Greenville, SC
Czarlxxvii is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help. I guess I need to play around with the carb to see what's up with it. It seems to be running well with the car, just a bit rich.
_________________
McCay
1974 Super Beetle
Daily Driver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue


Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
keifernet is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czarlxxvii wrote:
Thanks for the help. I guess I need to play around with the carb to see what's up with it. It seems to be running well with the car, just a bit rich.



As I eluded to in an earlier post... get a gauge and check the fuel pressure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Czarlxxvii
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 164
Location: Greenville, SC
Czarlxxvii is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:


As I eluded to in an earlier post... get a gauge and check the fuel pressure.


I read right over that. Sorry Sad
_________________
McCay
1974 Super Beetle
Daily Driver
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Orsocron
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 307
Location: Huntsville, AL
Orsocron is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Czar,

You can easily make a fuel pressure tester with some hose, a "T" fitting, and a $1.98 fuel pressure gauge from Autozone. Remind me and I'll send you a picture of the one I made.

Have you done the COMPLETE tune/reset of that Bocar? By that I mean the whole setting of the screw on the throttle arm, and setup of the two side screws to their "factory" setting? There's a decent writeup for that on this website as well as the vwresource site.

Joe
_________________
1964 1500s Notchback

Yes, always!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
g bags
Samba Member


Joined: September 25, 2009
Posts: 1
Location: old lyme ct
g bags is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the carb tip! my 79 cab with carb runs and idles good!i jumped from the computer to the garage.........thanks g bags
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
mnussbau
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4589
Location: Central Maryland
mnussbau is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keifernet wrote:
Gariack wrote:
Anyone know the diameter of the different size holes in the throttle plate on the 34 pict carbs.


The DVDA is approx 5/32" and SVDA is 1/8".

Hard to believe that difference does anything but trust me... it makes a big difference in the way the carb runs/tunes when your using a DVDA flange # German carb meant to be timed at 5 ATDC with an SVDA timed at 7.5 or an 009 timed at 10 BTDC.

I find the pop rivet easier than taking the plate out and soldering the hole shut, grinding it flush and re drilling it but that's a personal choice. It can also be "undone" in a matter of minutes if someone wants to go back to a DVDA and does not alter the carb in any other way.

Sorry to bring this old thread back, but my 34Pict3 and SVDA combination is stumbling and I think it's because the carb is meant for a DVDA. I'm going to try the rivet trick. What size rivet is the right one? Also, I assume I've got to remove the center of the rivet after installation?
_________________
Mike
Sold my sedan
Parts...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be that, or just general wear on the throttle shaft causing issues. Have you looked up your carb's base-flange number on the chart posted earlier in this thread? If you don't have one, then you'll just have to take it off and look at the throttle butterfly and see what size the hole is now, again, refer to pictures earlier in this thread.

-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mnussbau
Samba Member


Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 4589
Location: Central Maryland
mnussbau is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith rebushed the throttle shafts a couple years ago, they're good. The carb base number (281-1) indicates it's meant for a DVDA. Turns out there already was a rivet in the throttle plate but the center pin had not been knocked out. This morning I pulled the carb and knocked out that pin, warmed up the engine, tuned the carb, and BINGO, no more stumble!! What a difference!
_________________
Mike
Sold my sedan
Parts...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
emu88
Samba Member


Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 1857
Location: UK
emu88 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to query plugging the hole in the throttle plate.

Mine is fully plugged with a rivet, no hole at all. I got it this way and it worked.

Car is a 1971 DP 1600 with a 34 pict 3 carb (1972) and a SVDA 1974 dizzy.

I hear with DVDA dizzys there must be a hole in the throttle plate but that for SVDA dizzys there need not be. Can someone clarify this for me and tell me if I am fine or if I DO need to drill a small hole in that rivet - and if so, how big?
_________________
03/1971, 1302 Super Beetle 1600 dual port
Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
Long reach heads
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26297
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The purpose of the hole is to allow a small amount of air past the throttle butterfly, this allows the adjusment of the air bypass and volume screws to be in proper range for the initial timing of 7.5BTDC or 5ATDC. The DVDA particularly needs more air past since it's timed so far back. The SVDA less so - if yours is running OK and you get a decent adjustment from those screws on the side, then I'd call it good and not mess with it further.
-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32432
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
The purpose of the hole is to allow a small amount of air past the throttle butterfly, this allows the adjusment of the air bypass and volume screws to be in proper range for the initial timing of 7.5BTDC or 5ATDC. The DVDA particularly needs more air past since it's timed so far back. The SVDA less so - if yours is running OK and you get a decent adjustment from those screws on the side, then I'd call it good and not mess with it further.
-Andy


But his isn't running well at all. I'd by all means drill a small hole as a bypass. You are looking at the size of a pop rivet stud. A 1/8" pop rivet here in the USA has a .074 stud on it. That's bigger than 1/16 but smaller than 5/64. That hole size generally works on these cars to help the idle and dead spot.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
emu88
Samba Member


Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 1857
Location: UK
emu88 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
glutamodo wrote:
The purpose of the hole is to allow a small amount of air past the throttle butterfly, this allows the adjusment of the air bypass and volume screws to be in proper range for the initial timing of 7.5BTDC or 5ATDC. The DVDA particularly needs more air past since it's timed so far back. The SVDA less so - if yours is running OK and you get a decent adjustment from those screws on the side, then I'd call it good and not mess with it further.
-Andy


But his isn't running well at all. I'd by all means drill a small hole as a bypass. You are looking at the size of a pop rivet stud. A 1/8" pop rivet here in the USA has a .074 stud on it. That's bigger than 1/16 but smaller than 5/64. That hole size generally works on these cars to help the idle and dead spot.

Dave

Hmm, well I should perhaps update you on my car! Since installing a new float valve with .5mm washer and replacing the manifold boots and gaskets, my engine WILL now run and idle on the lowest step of the cam - but still very rough. If I can't sort the smooth idle with the bypass and volume screws I can try drilling that hole. My drill doesnt hold that small a bit unfortunately Very Happy
_________________
03/1971, 1302 Super Beetle 1600 dual port
Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
Long reach heads
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 2 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.