Author |
Message |
gheezerghia Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2007 Posts: 495
|
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
I've just finished installing one of my pop out windows and everything looks great but it won't latch. It appears that the rubber isn't compressing enough to allow the latch to latch and I'm worried that I'll break something if I force it. Any suggestions or does someone make a better piece of rubber than West Coast Metric?? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
snookerdude Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2004 Posts: 914 Location: central florida
|
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i put in a w.c.m. set a couple of years ago and found the same problem but it is overcomable. you will probably have to loosen your latches a bit to give them a little more flexibility. i thought i would break the rig too...it was almost flipping over but i thought a little more pressure and POW. after a couple of months of getting them to stay closed with the loose fittings, i tightened them up and forced them closed and after almost 3 years they do not freely clamp but even my wife can close them o.k. but i don't really care....i never open the pop outs anyway. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gheezerghia Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2007 Posts: 495
|
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Snookerdude, Do you mean loosening the three screws attached to the body? Thanks for your help on this. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
I know this is a really old thread, but I'm having the same problem as the OP. I just installed the first quarter window on my car. Seals, trim, hinges, glass, etc all went in beautifully with no gaps. Unfortunately I can't close the latch. It's not a problem I was expecting, and in one swift move trying to close the latch, I pulled the latch screws right out of the C-pillar. I'll have to get some thicker screws now, and maybe add some red locktite.
But is there a remedy for the seal pushing so hard against the glass that you can't close the latch? I did some searching and this is the only thread I could find where this issue was mentioned.
_________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alois66 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Germany Bavaria
|
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:32 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Hey Era Vulgaris,
I ran in the very same problem as you did. An I still haven't found the time to solve it.
The quality of the rubber of seals is for sure a major contributor to this problem. Most of them are just to hard. In addition some of them are not properly shaped i.e.create kinks when installed. This is not a new fact but I realized that my old rubber from the 90's already had the same problem, but I didn't realize it as the car was with me in SoCal at that time.
In addition the form and softness of the rubber is different from the various supplier. The left one is significantly softer than the right one, and also better preshaped, as far as I recall.
In my specific case for the "finalized" restoration, I might have put too much sealant under the rubber band, the aluminum trim and the final rubber, so that the whole seal arrangement became to thick and the space to tight now for the window to fit in.
What I will do is to take the complete rear quarter window apart again, throw out the black rubber seal under the aluminum trim for the main seal, and replace it with a thin strip of window sealant. In addition I will buy new seals with a softer rubber if available from either Vintage Cars (Huber) or Lars Neuffer in Göttingen, both of them often have very close to original or even original parts available.
The current solution, until I'll find time and muse to fix it besides driving it, is to link the two windows latches together with a stainless steel cable and a cable tensioner. This works reasonably well to keep the rain out and the car closed.
Keep reposted how it works out for you.
BR Max |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Max, thanks for the info. Where is seal from that was softer, the one on the left side in your photo? I bought mine from West Coast Metric, and the profile looks just like the one on the right side in your pic, too thick and too firm. I didn't use any sealant at all on mine - only the rubber seals themselves - so that isn't a contributing factor in my case.
Regarding the kinks, I borrowed a trick from samba member jeffrey8164, and pushed a roughly 4" long section of fuel hose into the seal right where the bend is, and this prevents the kinking. Mine in the pic above would've kinked had I not done that.
So I bought some thicker sheet metal screws to re-attach my latch, and I am able to close my window so that all points of the glass are touching the seal, and lock it in position with the knob. However the latch is only about halfway closed in this instance, not fully closed as it should be.
Before I just start buying seals one at a time from different sellers to find a better seal, I'm wondering if anyone has advice on where to get a softer more pliable pop out seal in the US. _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kiwighia68 Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013 Posts: 2867 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
|
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
I have the same problem with the too hard rubber around my pop-out windows ('68 Ghia). I already have a set of rubbers for the front windows (from Rudiger Huber), and have installed his rubber for the front trunk.The quality is excellent and the rubber soft and better fitting.
This thread now reminds me to get a set for the pop-outs as well. One day, maybe, a complete re-resto of the window rubbers for me. (I have the trim as well, all original from Herr Huber). _________________ Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
I've been known to occasionally not see things that are right in front of me, but I'm not seeing any pop out seals for sale on Rudiger's site. Are you guys finding them somewhere else on the site?
https://www.vintagecarparts.de/liste.php?set_shop=1&set_wg=99&set_markwg=106;99 _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alois66 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Germany Bavaria
|
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Hey Ers
You are correct, none on Rüdigers site so far. I checked it two days ago as well. Let me check where I got the harder one, shown right and also used for the right side, and the one for the left side and shown on the left. Might well be that the left one was very old (1999) and still bought in San Diego at VeeParts.
BR Max |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 10968
|
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Alois66 wrote: |
Hey Ers
You are correct, none on Rüdigers site so far. I checked it two days ago as well. Let me check where I got the harder one, shown right and also used for the right side, and the one for the left side and shown on the left. Might well be that the left one was very old (1999) and still bought in San Diego at VeeParts.
BR Max |
All youll find at Vee Parts now in EMPI junk and whatever they get from Wolfsburgwest or Airhead.you must have got some old stock stuff back then. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alois66 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Germany Bavaria
|
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
@ Braukuche,
what a pitty, in the old days (1996-2000) they sold in my opinion good stuff and where very knowledgeable. However I was a complete newbie.
@ Era Vulgaris:
I figured out more about my seals.
I got a set of two from a german distributor / warehouse. And alltough the left style is advertised in their catalogue, you get the right side junk.
Hard not preformed etc.
See the comparison here with my old seals (preformed left style) which I ripped out and the hard new seal in the center.
Hard straight new
Old style (soft preformed
The left one in my picture I really got in the old style from Veeparts and they were 25yars old, soft and preformed. So when I installed that one, no kinks in the bend or whatsoever.
Now i will ask tomorrow Lars Neuffer in Göttingen whether he has some of the old style available.
I'll keep you posted.
BR Max |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alois66 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Germany Bavaria
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Hi Era Vulgaris,
I just bought a pair of pop-out quater seals from Lars Neuffer in Göttingen. According to Neuffer they get them from the original manufacturer of the VW seals.
Very knowledgeable people /shop with high quality parts. No webshop though, but a webpage under construction https://ghia-connection.de/index.htm but from which you can download a pdf catalogue (old prices though). Email info(at)karmann-ghia.de
The seals arrived today, were reasonably priced and in the correct cross-section shape, although they were overall just slightly preformed (actually pretty straight) The very old ones from Vee-Parts in the 90's were much more pronounced in their shape.
Nevertheless, the softness of the rubber seems to be pretty good. Soft and I guess so malleable, that I would not expect any kinks in the tight radius.
I will let you know how the perform once I get around to install them.
All the best Max
PS On a different topic: Do you know a good radio with modern technology but a styling correct for the 60-70s? I need a new one. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Max,
Thanks for the update. I hadn't heard of Lars' site before. My jaw is literally on the floor looking through the catalog! How does he stock all those items?! I think you could build a Ghia from scratch with everything he sells
Lots of hard to find early parts too.
Have the prices gone up at all when you bought the seals? Asking since the catalog was from 2018. _________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Alois66 Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: Germany Bavaria
|
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Hi Era,
just figured that I forgot the cross section picture:
I can't really tell to what extent the prices went up. One seal costed around 50 which is reasonable for the quality and complexity of it.
BR Max |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Era Vulgaris Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012 Posts: 1662 Location: Raleigh, NC
|
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Pop Out Window Rubber |
|
|
Several months in and my WCM popout seals haven't budged or softened a bit. I read in another thread (bottom of this page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538911&start=40 ) where Teeroy mentions that the KGPR seals are formed with the curve.
I just got them and can confirm, they have a molded curve so no bunching, and they also have the "holes" running through the bottom that you can see on the ends. They feel much more pliable than the WCM seals which are incredibly stiff, and the round part that the quarter window rests against has a narrower profile than the WCM seals. I'll post pics once I get these installed.
_________________ Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
|
Back to top |
|
|
sputnick60 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 3907 Location: In Molinya Orbit
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|