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Oil leak
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preachermanNC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Oil leak Reply with quote

I got the motor out and the tin removed. I can’t help but notice a remarkable difference between the two sides of the engine. Cylinders 1/2 are much cleaner looking, while cylinders 3/4 is sloppy with oil! Any suggestions or guidance as to why and what I need to do?
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

The oil cooler sits on that side. Pull yours off and inspect the seals.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Check the pushrod tubes and seals and make sure the gaskets under the rocker cover tins are good.
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RA 70
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Looks like the push rod seals likely leaking
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

preachermanNC wrote:

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This image shows evidence of a leak between the cylinder & head. This will also cause oil to leak out of the bottom of the cylinder.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

OP- feel free to double check the torque on your head bolts, but it's much more likely that it is your oil cooler seals or the cooler itself.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
OP- feel free to double check the torque on your head bolts, but it's much more likely that it is your oil cooler seals or the cooler itself.


Tom K. wrote:
The oil cooler sits on that side. Pull yours off and inspect the seals.


If mine: I'd likely do the seals, and probably the pushrod tube seals as well, since the engine is already out and stripped that far.
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

If it was oil cooler seals, it would be wet under the oil cooler. The block & cylinders are dry there. The black sooty stuff at the head & cylinder is indicative of an exhaust leak at the #3 cylinder/head. It’s even more likely as this engine did not have a doghouse shroud on it, thus running 3/4 cylinders hotter.

While the pushrod seals might be leaking, the cylinder head is wet ABOVE the pushrod tubes on both the head & the block. On the block side, this indicates a leak between the cylinder & the block. The oil leak on the head side indicates a leak between the cylinder and the head, and/or, a leak around the lower head stud washers/nuts.
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sb001
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

OP, since there are obvious remnants of it being wet under the oil cooler at one time, even more evidence that it's probably your oil cooler seals.
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preachermanNC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies! I believe I'm inclined to think like cusser, and just replace all the seals that you've mentioned while it's out. That way I hopefully get it one way or another. I assume I should leave the other side of the engine alone, since there's no evidence of a leak? Not broken don't fix it kind of thing?
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sb001
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

If you already have the engine out and easy access to the 1-2 side, I'd suggest going ahead and replacing the pushrod tube seals on that side as well- inexpensive and good maintenance as long as you already have easy access. Would also be a good time to make sure the seams on all your pushrod tubes are facing upward to prevent any potential leaks there as well, as well as double checking the torque on your head bolts.

But most likely the cause of your leak was simply the oil cooler seals.
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cbeck
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Do us a small favor, wipe your finger under the cooler and let us know if your finger comes out dry. If so, your leak is not coming from there. Looks dry in your pic.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Pushrod tube seals. The oil cooler area is dry on the engine case in that one pic and it would be covered with ooze if the cooler seals were leaking even if the seals face the opposite side of the case.
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preachermanNC
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

I was able to take the engine to a mechanic today and he looked it over. He did a leak down test on each cylinder. Cylinder one held 55%, number two held 97%, number three held 35%, number four held 98%. The bolts for cylinder one were already torqued down. Cylinder three, where the oil leak is, needed extensive tightening! After tightening the bolts, it jumped to 97%. I believe the oil leak was as simple as them needing tightening. I’ve decided to redo the top end. I’ll have a machine shop do the heads, i’ll go ahead and replace the clutch and rear main seal, I’ll replace the push rod tube seals, and I will replace the cylinders. I believe I’ll upgrade a little and make it a 1641cc.
I accidentally dropped the engine trying to put it in the back of my truck. The only damage was done to the oil cooler. So I’ll put a new one on and that will take care of any possibility that the seal was leaking also.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Might not be a good idea, what’s the endplay like? How many miles on this engine?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

typical case of loose heads on a large stud non doghouse engine...generally the head studs get pulled out of the case by the expansion of the overheated cylinders and heads...since you've already tightened them back up and they held (was it to full torque?) you may be okay but be advised that the threads in the block may be partially stripped ....you may need a couple of self tapping studs if you dont plan on full rebuild where case savers could be installed....EDIT...looking back at your pics i think you have a thin stud(8mm) setup...be advised that many of the aftermarket stud kits supplied with new cases were pure junk...original vw studs were a spring steel alloy designed to stretch when the engine got hot and still be able to return to original size and torque when cool...the aftermarket junk would stretch and stay stretched...if you yank sideways on a stud it should deflect an inch or so and snap back...if it bends and stays bent its junk....accidently discovered this when carrying a block by the bare studs with crank and flywheel installed...set it down and the studs were at all different angles
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preachermanNC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Might not be a good idea, what’s the endplay like? How many miles on this engine?


This was the mechanic's recommendation. He checked the end play and said it was good. I have no clue about the engine mileage. Only had the car a year.
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preachermanNC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

I got the heads yanked off. Bet you can't guess which one is cylinder 3. I noticed that the push rod tube seals on this head were hard and brittle. But the seals on the other were soft and supple. Odd.
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goober
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil leak Reply with quote

Look at the combustion blow-by and burn on the cyl/head surface. It was leaking combustion and sucking oxygen. Lean and hot.

Depending on how much I'd want to put into it, I would at least repair any loose studs and lap/clean up the cyl/head mating surface. Lap in new exhaust valves for added insurance.
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