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tencent is my hero...
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noza wrote:

Gotta love this forum.
Cool

Second that.

With 10cent (things 2.1 and 1.9), Dogpilot (things electrical), Ben (Subaru swap trials and tribulations as well as a massive stock of process photos), Loogy (for suspension and wheels... and for me, the best SVX photo documentation I've found yet),...
This place is a REALLY great source.

Lots and lots of others with great input, too.. almost always tempered with a solid dose of objectivity and practicality
..
Hard to find anything on the web as solid as the Samba, these days.


And I haven't even ventured into the sandrail and body work areas of the site yet!
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those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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noza
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ben- nice call on injectors! getting new injectors, hence the waiting...
saw your write-up after the fact

and for the tins, it's a lot easier to find any leaks with them on. Now that motor is worry free, they are getting put back on.

Gotta love this forum.
Cool
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nortenos rule, ese!
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Van-go108
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Wayne wrote:
I plan on going with a tc engine when my time comes.

Me too. Even if he's a Northern New Mexican. Laughing
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kevtherev
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tencent saved me a fortune..
he stopped me getting into a mess with a rebuild.

"Abandon it..!"

I did, and have a great engine now.

In England he'd be given a round of "HUZZARS!" and "frees a jolly good.. "
The Queen would have him round the palace for tea.

such is his fame for being a jolly decent chap.
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PocketRocket
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know of a way the check the stretch of the head studs as they are not like a rod bolt that you can put a gauge on. Just got off the phone with Randy at raceware. He says he no longer has the WBX head studs and last cost was $350 a set. He said he would make another batch if he could get 20 orders with 50% down. Working on and building WBX engines for years now, I have seen through my shop over 10 engines that have had broken head studs that came in on the hook. I have seen from customers sending me their blocks another 40 to 50 broken head studs. I inspect each head stud with a magnifying glass and a strong light to check for any pitting from rust removing and replacing any that show signs of being corroded, the area closest to the block is where most of the studs corrode and break, the engine I removed the stud for 10 cent (Chris) was outside top #2. the outside ones are the ones I see broken most of the time. I buy core blocks from shops that don't or won't deal with removing the broken studs & replacing them with good used ones. When 10 cent was at my shop I had over a hundred good used studs in stock of all three sizes. As these engines get older the head stud problems will get worse. Its just the cost of building better than the run of the mill engines. Thanks Rocky
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the offer, Damon. To begin with I would need to get new ones to have the original length. Measurement in-hand is easy, but the whole point is there needs to be a way to accurately measure the length while in the case, since the biggest bear about changing them out isn't the price of the studs, although that is considerable, but the labor of extracting them; they do not come free easily, as Rocky will attest. If I make up tubes that can fit down onto the taper at the root flare, then they could be slipped over each stud in situ to see if the stud has lengthened. How much is safe would be based on what is considered safe for other highly-stressed stretch-type bolts, such as are used on other cylinder heads, and allowing a proportional change in length. The changes would be very small, though, I would think at most a few thou on the longest ones, so the machining of the measuring tubes would have to be pretty precise so they fit down onto the root flare consistently.

Don't know if it would actually be useful, it's just an idea at this point, but you can see why I would be motivated to figure this out.

Oh, and I don't want to forget to say thanks for all the very kind remarks made by everyone; I'm glad if I helped anybody, but mostly I'm humbled by your praise!
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wbx
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
...it would require making a tube of accurate length that could be slipped over each one until it bottoms on the root flare. There would have to be three different tubes for the three lengths of studs. This will require some more investigation.


In the interest of science, i could take my set of head studs to work and measure them on the height gauge we have there. It would certainly be easier to just measure the overall length, but i could take a couple others, too. That is, if you don't have enough for a reasonable data set. Of course, this would only be measuring used ones, but might still be interesting.

-Damon
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, where's the tin on that engine?

Cool
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly right: stuff happens. Rocky has built more of these than I have, even, and he said he has had a few studs break after some time in service. It's just one of those things that's hard to control. I would think the odds would be improved by use of all-new ones, but the increased cost of a blanket approach would mean I would sell very few engines at all. It doesn't do much good to build a perfect product that no one can afford.

Ben, the overtorque test is a good way to assess the threading in the case, because aluminum threads will shear or not shear, pretty much, but I'm afraid that overtorquing studs like these might just stretch them and put them closer to potential failure even though they don't break under the test. Their construction seems to be a stretch type, and there's no doubt that as the engine expands they are put under much higher tension than the basic torque applies. So I'm thinking that an accurate length measurement as is done for other stretch-shank bolts might be the way to weed out the ones that have given up some of their strength already. Because they are not seated in the case at consistent depths, it would require making a tube of accurate length that could be slipped over each one until it bottoms on the root flare. There would have to be three different tubes for the three lengths of studs. This will require some more investigation.

Sanchius, since you're not far away, I'd like to talk with you about those parts. I've had offers of similar but from so far away the shipping cancels out a lot of the potential value. I'm not hard up for good cores, but the Albuquerque VW wrecker where I score a lot of my working stock is going to go out of business at the end of '09, so I should try to get ahead somewhat. Look for a PM.
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FNGRUVN
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you did replace all of the studs with new ones, who is to say one of the new ones couldn't break. Stuff happens. The space shuttle is a good example of this. The best of everything, tested and retested and the thing still breaks. Stuff happens.
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sanchius Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tencentlife"]
Quote:

...I had brought a complete prepped case and was ready to reassemble the entire engine on it to get the owner back on the road, then deal with the stud afterward to salvage the case...


10c,

Do you need core cases (or any other engine parts)? I have a couple that I'd be more than happy to send you.

It would be only a partial payback for all the advice and, more importantly, the confidence that you've so freely given us over the past couple years.

When we know that we have an expert willing to help us if we get in trouble, it allows us to be much more adventurous when diving into these old engines.

Lawrence (Colorado)


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ftp2leta
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo but i wound's expect anything less from him Smile

To tenc, i sometime test the strength of the stud by putting a very strong metal bar with a hole in it across the water jacket, put the stud in the hole and over torque it to 42-3. On a old case that i didn't care about i was able to but 55 before the stud stripped.

By the way noza, i see normal hose clamp on those injector!!! And i see original hoses on the injector.... you don't want that beautiful engine to burned down!

Cheers, Ben
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CasaDelSol
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If tencent don't rock, ain't nobody rockin'. Assuming I am around long enough for me 2.1 to kick, the next powerplant will be a tencent deluxe.
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Bruce Wayne
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I plan on going with a tc engine when my time comes.
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errolprowse
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wish we could have a online donation box for tencentlife, i mean i barely have enough money for fixing my vanagon but i would totally give him a couple bucks here and there. and if everyone did that too i think it would work out great.

his posts are like 5 times as long as others and tell in exact detail how to fix a problem, i like bookmark his postings just for later on reference. (not excluding everyone, there are some other really smart guys on this forum)
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Spezialist
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty impressed by much of what I've read.
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fairweather
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't "good" customer service it's, ah well, is there even a name for this?? Something beyond exceptional for sure.

I have always stated in the various "swap" threads to just install a 10c or GW engine, well that list just got shorter by 50%.
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shadetreemech
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Criminey, the things some people will do just because its the right thing to do.

I'd like to buy you a beer, or a nice glass of wine, one of these days, sir.

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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why was there a head stud missing?


Well, hell, it was there when I built the thing. Now where did that thing go?

The stud broke off down at the root in the case. It's just a risk you take when rebuilding this old stock. There aren't any credible tests established to assess the head studs (although you can be damn sure I'm trying to figure one out!); you inspect them for corrosion or damage, and run with them if they look OK and take your chances. The alternative is to replace them all at over $200 the set, and an easy full day's labor to R&R, if you're lucky. That would raise the price of an engine $500, for every one, whether it needed new studs or not. I don't think I would sell many engines if the price went up $500 but there wasn't $500 more performance, so this is just one of those calculated risks one takes in business. Lots of things are this way; you'd be surprised. The only downside is you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences should they arise.

I had been wanting to travel up that way anyway to meet Rocky, since we've been collaborating on some projects, and to take him a load of valuable old engine parts I won't use but he can recondition and turn into money instead of selling them for scrap. The genius here was Mr. Jennings; once I got the engine out and the head off, he took a look and thought we could make a go of getting the busted root out. He and I spent about an hour and a half hand drilling thru the root, and he had the tools and knew the tricks to get that thing free! I had brought a complete prepped case and was ready to reassemble the entire engine on it to get the owner back on the road, then deal with the stud afterward to salvage the case, but Rocky's know-how with these things saved me an easy day and a half of work. My luck that my customer lives in the same town as the guy who pulls more studs out of wbx cases than probably anyone in the country. And just a great guy on top of that; I had a wonderful visit and it didn't seem like work at all. The van's fixed, I had a fun road trip, made new friends and saw some old ones along the way, and everyone seems to be happy in the end. Drank some great wine, too.

Rocky could have dealt with it, but he's busy with his own business and has walk-ins and everything, and I would have had to compensate him fairly with cash, so it was a money vs. time question: I could drive up and deal with it myself for far less money, if I could just take the time, which at that moment I could. Add the other reasons to go and I undertook the trip without reservation (I mean who needs reservations when you travel in a van?).

It couldn't have worked out any better than it did.
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