Oil at bell housing

[bjrogers86auto]

Hey Samba experts and amateurs...I have some oil coming out seemingly from the bellhousing at the transmission. 2.1, auto. I did a cross Canada trip and lost about 500ml each way.

I'm assuming it's a rear seal but also wondered what experience you guys had with plugged breather towers. I'm thinking plugged tower means increased crankcase pressure and oil finding the easy way out.

Is there any way to check the rear seal for sure?
What's inside that tower?
Anyone know the Cadbury Caramel secret?

Thanks for the help and any and all sarcasm will be appreciated!

Brian.

[Turk.380]

FRONT seal. Rear would be the pulley. BACK is BACK, from the Idiot Book, eh?
(there's your sarcasm for you!)

In my experience any engine oil coming from the bellhousing is going to be the front main seal.
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista

[bjrogers86auto]

No matter how I look at it the back is the front.

Thanks for the info and the sarcasm.

[vwmaniaman]

I have the same thing on my 15K rebuilt motor that I rebuilt. It started doing the leak shortly after the rebuild. Only minor leakage though, so I haven't done the job yet. Mine seems to leak more when it sits than when I drive. I am on a vacation in Ohio right now, and the oil level hasn't changed. It is still halfway in the good zone on the dipstick. I am wondering if mine is not a case seam leak or cam plug leak.

[?Waldo?]

The galley plugs can also come loose. That tends to happen most often after an engine rebuild. If the galley plug comes loose, then it's hard to know what will come first, the lights on the dash or the engine seizing.

Andrew

[goffoz]

[puravidadon]

I agree with bjrogers86auto - back is front. Anyway, I have the same problem. Left it with a mechanic in the winter and he replaced the seal between the engine and transmission(rear to me) and the torque converter seal as well. He replaced a bunch of other things as well - FUEL LINES especially. The point is I have the same problem - it's still leaking between the engine and transmission. About 1/2 litre(.5285 quart) in 1200 km(745.645 miles). I too would like to know where the oil could be coming from.

I've also read other posts about not filling to the upper mark on the dipstick. What's with that?
_________________
1974 Thing
87 westy (automatic) 2006 - 2010
70 dune buggy 2007 - 2011
98 Suzuki Sidekick 2006 - 2012
09 F-150 Lariat
Kona Fire Mountain MTB
Marin Hawk Hill MTB

[ccisco]

It is most likely either the crank seal or the oil galley plugs. Regardless, you should fix it asap, as both tend to get much worse in a short amount of time. Your big question is if you want to pull the motor or drop the tranny. Pulling the engine, at least for me, is the best; that way I don't have to mess with the CV joints (which I hate to do). Of course you also loose a lot of coolant by pulling the engine, and are messing with a bunch of old brittle wires....Also, by dropping the tranny you can check its seals and bell housing gasket and stuff....
Which ever way you go, make sure you buy one of the really good seals, I went through two out of the gasket kits, and both lasted about a block. And, checkout Benplace.com for a good run down on how to replace the seals. Using a little grease on the seal and flywheel cuts down on the shredding chances.
Good luck
Charles

[bjrogers86auto]

The part...for argument sake...is called a rear main seal.

I'm thinking that this winter will bring a full engine/transmission reseal. The intake manifold, injectors, fuel lines, coolant hoses and transmission cooler were done this year.

I'm hoping to make it on a few more short trips and will keep a close eye on oil levels and loss. Nothing has hit the ground yet...just collecting in the engine crud. hehe.

What and where are the plugs that you guys mentioned?

Thanks as always for the input. Brian.

[ccisco]

Yeah, I call it the rear main seal as well, although it really isn't. As per Bentley (13.39) it is really one of the crankshaft oil seals...The galley plugs are located on each half of the case. Just run a search galley plugs and you'll get some good info. There are several ways of fixing them. Some just spread some JB weld over them, others tap them out and put real pipe plugs. The latter approach seems a bit complicated since you dont want to get the shavings and such in your oil channels....As far as the main seal, some people drive them leaking for a long time, others, they just start gushing, so, if you are going to be driving with it leaking, make sure your oil warning light and buzzer are working.
Good luck
Charles

[tencentlife]

Front, rear, left, right, liberal, conservative; longstanding convention has the flywheel seal called the rear main seal because most engines, front or rear-mounted, present their pulley end to the casual observer, and in most cars that faces front. Anyway, to avoid this kind of confusion I try to stick to "flywheel seal" and "pulley seal" and leave it at that.

Lots of FW seals get replaced and still leak. The primary reason is that the FW has a groove worn in the seal race, this being much more of a problem with wbx's than it was with older VW boxers because they do tend to be left in the vehicle for two or three times the typical rebuild interval of aircooleds. When you do this job (and dropping the trans is less than 1/4 the work of removing the engine; do any of you actually have trouble with CV's?) you must be sure to inspect the FW or you'll be doing the job over again right away. My standard is if the groove on the sealing race is deep enough to catch your fingernail in, it's too deep to fix up. Shallower than that, and I have a procedure for making the seal race like new again, by spinning it and using progressively finer abrasives to rework the surface to a bright polish. I've asked machinists if they could regrind this area and the answer has always been no. You should take the opportunity to have the clutch friction surface reground if it isn't smooth, especially if you are replacing the clutch disc.

There is one oil galley plug that typically seeps and can potentialy turn into a gusher. On my rebuilds this one gets pulled out and replaced with a threaded plug. It's the one at the end of the main galey, about 1/2" in diameter, and if you are looking at the flywheel face of the engine (with FW removed) it is on your right and about three inches above the bottom of the sump. Take a close look at that and if it's seeping already then you should probably repair it. There are a couple of tiny ones in there too, but I've yet to see any of those that weren't perfectly tight and dry.

Use the best quality seal you can get your hands on, too. The ones in the engine gasket sets are the cheapest ones they make. The Sabo seal that GW has cornered the market on and sells for $30 each, or the Victor Reinz Viton seal that VC sells for $10, are the only ones I would even consider using. There are big differences in quality and construction among seals, it's not a minor point or preference.
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Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[bjrogers86auto]

First off I want to say it's an honour to have Tencentlife reply to my post...hehe. From ALL the threads I have read (alot) your answers obviously come from a wealth of experience and knowledge.

Now that I'm done "suckin up"...thanks for the info. I read the Gowesty article on the different seals and will try and get one separate from the kit. Mines an auto so I was thinking a torque converter rebuild might be in order. A good friend owns a tranny shop. That and all the tranny seals and gaskets.

The engine is working great and I may just drop the tranny depending on time this winter. The cv's are all new and take about 15 mins to drop the axles out so thats no prob. (15 mins once it's on stands and a friend holds the tire)

I am a huge fan of preventive maintenance...having owned some old Ski-Doos it's much the same...work on it in the off season and enjoy the season! I am though also a fan of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Thanks again, Brian.

[vr2jetta]

I have the same problem. I thought it was the rear seal, and when I replaced it it still leaks. When I was under it I noticed a small bolt missing from the back of the case, so I replaced it too. I first thought maybe if oil was seeping out of the case when it was loose, after I tightened it, it may not seal completely. I loose more oil than you though. I need a quart every week or 2, and mine isnt driven that much.

[reluctantartist]

This will be the second time I have to replace my main seal on a rebuilt engine < 15k...grrr (I hope it is not a galley plug). I am going to do the job myself this time. I just bought a SABO seal so hopefully I will be done with it. I will check my flywheel for a groove, but I think my mechanic would have noticed if the flywheel had one. I was leaking just a enough to get on the bottom of the engine,but now it is leaving a mark on the ground underneath. If I had known about the difference in gaskets before I would have given my mechanic the SABO when he redid the gasket.
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[tencentlife]

[bjrogers86auto]

It's sadly the time of year to park the Vanorama for the season here in these parts. I guess I can't complain...we have had the van for just over a year and put 22k on it. The issues I did have were minor but I did a huge pile last year over the winter.

I have the flywheel seal from Gowesty and I also have all the seals for the transmission in stock as well. I'm not sure I can get the van high enough where I store it to remove the trans. That means the job will have to wait until April...or later...depending on our lovely weather.

I haven't documented any projects yet with pictures but might do that for this one.

Have a Happy Winter...
Brian.

[reluctantartist]

Good luck Brian...I will be doing mine a lot sooner. My family is planning on a trip to South Carolina in March...there is no way I'll take the westy with a leaky main...it seems to be leaking even more lately so I definitely want to do something before the clutch is ruined. I also have all the parts to replace my shift linkage bushings so I will do that at this time as well.

10cent if there is a groove on my flywheel is there anything I can do short of buying a new one?
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[tencentlife]

It's in my post above on this page.
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Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[reluctantartist]

I saw what you posted, and I should have made myself more clear in the previous post. I am hoping for an expanded explanation on how you spin the flywheel to smooth out the race...is it something a normal backyard joe can do or do need some special equipment most of would not have?

Thanks
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them.

[tencentlife]

Any way you can setup the FW to spin around a reasonably steady axis, and polish from like grit 60 up to 1200 or 2000, using plenty of WD40 or some other light lube and cleaner. Initially I bolted them to a crankshaft and turned it by hand on V-blocks. Later I made a holder I can put on my lathe. Whatever you can make work with what you have around.
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.