Thoughts and ideas - V-twin in a bug

[Mitey62]

This is a long winded post, but I'm looking for anyones useful input, it's all appreciated.

Once I sell my other baby (75 silverado) I'll be buying a second bug pan to build. This will be a long term project, but I've got a good idea of what I want. I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I think it would also make an excellent senior project (industrial engineering/vehicle design major).

I recently picked up a spare Suzuki TL1000R motor. It is a 996cc watercooled fuel injected L-twin that develops approximately 130 hp and 72 ft*lbs at the crank with a redline at 11k rpm. With big bore kits and a small dry shot of nitrous that number can jump to nearly 200. I've got a TL1000R (hence my love for the engine) and have a pretty good idea of their linear torquey powerband and reliability.

Maybe I should add that when completed, I think it is completely possible to get the front tires off the blacktop It's a goal at least!

My ideas thus far consist of the following.
-I plan on running 2 small radiators in the fronts of the rear fenders. Stock this engine runs off of 2 small radiators stacked vertically.
-The stock air intake below the rear window will serve as my ram air. This bike also comes with ram air devices stock, and while it will most likely not be of huge benefit, I think it would be a fairly simple task.
-She'll be on bags (obviously )
-The exhaust will be run out of what would be the tail lights. It will consist of some custom headers and cut down mufflers (V-twins sound really really good at 11k ). The tail lights will be swapped for some narrow flush mount types mounted to the sides of the rear window.
-Extremely minimal interior. Aluminum (or carbon fiber if I feel like laying up some big panels) door panels, simple dash using the stock TLR guages so as not to complicate wiring with the ECU equipment.
-Electronics mounted under what would typically be the rear seat, with the regulator/rectifier closer to an open air source.

What I have not yet determined as of yet is the driveline. Obviously sportbike engines have 6 speed internal transmissions. Myself and a few car-savvy buddies have thought of a few possibilities. The problem here is reverse...

-Run the motor via chain or gear to a bug differential. Run an airshifter on the motorcycle tranny and either leave the transaxle in a specified gear, throwing it in reverse when necessary. Of course, this way I could shift through any of the 4 speeds on the floor with 6 on the engine. 24 gears with 6 reverse. Infinate possibilities the problem here is designing a bell housing to house the VW clutch.

-Design and machine my own differential with a reverse inside. This has been done succesfully on a few small track cars using motorcycle engines in race series that require reverse for safety reasons. Now the problem would be putting 1500 lbs of stress on a clutch designed for 500. There are kevlar and other clutch kits avaliable, and I don't mind replacing clutches per say, but it would be nice for it to last more than a few hundred miles.

-Run the motorcycle engine straight to a small, narrowed differential (preferably something like a Rav-4 with limited slip). Reverse would be handled via an electric motor and some sort of centrifigal clutch. Honda Goldwings use a similar setup and weigh somewhere around 800 lbs I believe.

-The last I'm not sure about, but I think it could be done. Somehow flip a VW or Porsche transaxle and flip the gears to run the opposite direction, allowing the engine to be mounted in the rear seat area. Mid engine handling? Yes please.

Here are a few pictures of the engine. Right now I'm just in the process of tearing it down and making sure the mere 20k miles haven't taken too large a toll.

And what it usually powers. My other baby (no, the engine's not out of THIS bike)

[Bart Dunn]

I'd sit on that idea for a few months and test your commitment to it. There are 100 times more abandoned projects like this than completed ones and the abandoned cars die slow deaths under wet tarps.
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Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan

[werksberg]

Interesting idea...

The Legends race cars use a Yamaha MC engine with a U joint onto the out put chain gear to a reg. car drive shaft....but no reverse. But who needs to back up!

It sure will be light weight and possible fast car.

Maybe contact Trans adapt or some other engine conversion specialist for some help?
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[hitest]

I too have a love for that engine- I ride an '04 DL1000 V Strom. the key Q in your project is torque for that heavy a load. I don't think it'll fly. The bike engine develops it's torque well up the RPM range- so I don't know how a bug will get rolling (see also your clutch dilemma). I'm not a hater- but a Goldwing (or a fat cruiser) has amazing low-end torque. I think a better motor has got to be had from a heavier bike-source if you were to proceed... Anybody in your neighborhood wreck a Triumph Rocket 3?
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[ninja90177]

I'm not entirely positive about the actual drivetrain setups, but I have seen several motorcycle-powered sandrails.

The majority of them probably weighed no more than, say, 1200 pounds max. Alot of them being on display at BikeFest 2007. I've seen a few around Dumont Dunes, but they were 'Busa turbo engines. The rails were mostly single seaters.

I'd definitely like to see how this one ends up.

Kenney
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Spun a rear drum? check this out

[petrol punk]

http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/charts/sbtl2.gif

It's definitely not a torque monster. My 36hp makes as much torque at under 2000rpm as that engine does at 3k but if you're willing to deal with it I suppose it could make a project. Definitely don't want to daily it though.
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36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma

[Mitey62]

I really don't think torque will be a problem. I don't know how much a stock bug motor makes, but because this is an L-twin it develops torque right off of idle and has a very linear powerband. With a big bore kit and a nitrous dry shot I think she should be fine.

I will need reverse because this will be a sunny-day street car, not a track car.

This is for a stock TL motor

[73 KAFER]

Being an ex-Suzuki dealer, those TL-1000 engines are damn near bullet proof. 20k miles is nothing AS LONG the engine has been maintained, oil changes, valve clearance checks, ect. I had a customer with a 1000R and really beat the snot out of it...he did bring it in for all his maint. service, then would leave with the longest, smokiest burnout....also sold him lots of tires too!
Good luck on the project, keep us posted with pics.




Mark
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1973 Beetle
#3 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=775620Kafer-Cup vintage road racer

[Kilroy]

How about a modern version of this?
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Ruby Red '66 Sedan with Puebla built 1600DP.

[Bugzilla]

There's a thread over on the off-road forum with a link to this:

~T

[Mitey62]

OOOOOHH. that looks like I may have to do some research, thanks!

[62dave]

I'd look into some bike powered Locost builds - you'd have a little more weight but the concept would be similar.

http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10

[drscope]

[Kjell Roar]

I dont know what will happend with your V-twin, but inline -four bike-engines have oil problems in a car, because of the oil sump. In a car, the oil will flung (sideways) away from the oil intake in corners, and pump air into the engine.
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[Mitey62]

[smithe68]

I have to know, did you ever get anywhere with this?
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'71 Transporter "Stella"
'63 Beetle

[frog187]

http://www.zcars.org.uk/index.htm this site they were installing hayibusa engine and hondas in the mini. It might be some help.
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[EODinert]

I think it's a great idea, but I don't see any reason to hack up the rest of the car... You could do it as a bolt in, with no other permenant mods. That would be cool..
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'61 rag top beetle, '73 type 181, '66 13 window deluxe

[goswald79]

Slap a turbo on it an you should be fine. Check this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xdks-j3yt0
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1970 Standard Beetle
1958 Beetle with Sunroof
2003 Subaru Impreza WRX

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[Mitey62]

Right now I'm fixing up my pickup, and if I can sell that I'll have some bug money. Still got the motor and still planning on making this happen, just a $ matter. I've seen the Zcars, but haven't had much luck finding anything that helps me all that much. I would like to run a chain drive to a straight axle, but I don't think the bike clutch would handle the weight of a bug, so I'm still looking to mate the motor to the tranny via adaptor plate. Then I need to figure out how to connect the splined output of the bike motor to the splined input of the bug tranny. Everything right now is still just ideas in my brain, I guess I need a sponsor

As far as turbos, twins don't really take well to turbos, and these bottom ends can only handle about 160ish hp over 10k, so I'm still looking at a small dry shot of nitrous for that little extra "oomph".

And I'm not sure what you mean about not cutting up the car, there's really no way to install radiators etc. without cutting stuff.