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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
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Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from '88 onwards? |
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Looking to sort out this wing window whistle (say that three times, fast) and my Bentley (up to 87) doesn't have any mention of wing windows that open, it just shows fixed quarter windows.
I have seen an exploded view of the window on here but I don't think it was complete. Does anyone have a Bentley that shows the pivot mechanism? I could take apart the passenger side and look at it but that doesn't seem to be the easiest/safest way. I know the pivot is loose and that prevents the window from closing properly (the rear edge hits the frame) and because of that, it doesn't latch and I get the maddening whistle. I just closed it from the outside and next time I drive it I'll see if that makes any difference. At least I can confirm/deny that alignment helps.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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davideric9
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Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1000
Location: Oakland CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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The rubber is new as of last summer. The inner workings (that pivot specifically) are the problem. It's not connected to anything inside the door anymore, I suspect. It's extremely loose. Wouldn't be surprised if I could pull it out of the door. Might be perusing the classifieds to rectify that.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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Paulbeard
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Joined: July 10, 2015
Posts: 2604
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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"Well, there's your problem…"
Slides right out. Nothing holding it in place.
The mechanism to which it belongs seems kind of hard to get to. 
Wondering who thought putting the screw head on the back side of the mechanism is a fair question. The diagram above actually shows the screw on the more reasonable side, where you could access through the door. And that pin that goes through the pivot pin seems to be missing on mine. I don't recall seeing a hole for it and I left it outside so can't confirm.
I seem to have a lot of extra wires behind the door panel: power door locks and/or windows, maybe? It's an 87 so I think those were options at that point.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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Paulbeard
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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So the pivot isn't the problem. I managed to get it seated in the adjustment/clamp which means it doesn't flop around when I open and close the window. It could be tighter but I don't see any way to do that without taking the wing window frame out. I can't reach the clamp to make the adjustment.
The noise persists and the solution is a tighter seal. If I shim the window closed at the latch, I can get the noise to stop. There is a little bit of play in the latch and I'll see if I can get it apart and tighten that up.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
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Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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I recall sometime ago, a member posted that they fit some rope cord into the seal lip to cause it to fit snugger. Seemed like a simple idea. I am impressed that you got the vent bracket bolt out of the pivot.
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Paulbeard
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
I recall sometime ago, a member posted that they fit some rope cord into the seal lip to cause it to fit snugger. Seemed like a simple idea.
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Interesting. Having trouble visualizing that, how it would make the window seal more tightly (it needs to be pushed/pulled in and straightened so the back edge is vertical). That front pivot maybe needs tweaking, bending into a more helpful position. I really like being able to open that window, lots of fresh air without the noise of the main window, so I'm not done yet.
| MarkWard wrote: |
| I am impressed that you got the vent bracket bolt out of the pivot. |
That? It came right out, nothing holding it. This is the earlier version without the limiting pin and the clamp is too loose to offer much resistance.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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rmcd
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Joined: October 29, 2010
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Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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I'm in the process of rebuilding my doors after a full paint job.
My van had the chrome trim. I removed it. My wing window rubber isn't too bad but without the chrome trim it feels more loose. Floppy loose.
So I decided to order new rubber and found this note at the bottom of van cafes order page that implies the chrome trim acts to hold the rubber seal tighter. Looking at my seals I believe it.
So maybe putting a cord inside the chrome trim slot will add this clamping force back and reduce the whistle from this area?
This link also talks about reducing wind noise.
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/smartlist_1088/weatherstrip-front-doors-c1088
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Paulbeard
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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Well, it seems part of the trouble is the front pivot: it's too loose and doesn't force the window into the right alignment. Not sure how to fix that. The part (where parts 3 and 4 attach) that comes through the rubber seal is actually loose. Compared it to the passenger side and it's nice and tight.
This project really wants me to take that &^%&^&ing frame out. 
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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zak99B5
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Joined: December 21, 2014
Posts: 471
Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Bentley Section 57 from 88 onwards? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
As the illustration shows, it's a pretty simple assembly.
Newer Vans have a built in stop so that you cannot fully swing them open, why? Who knows?
You can easily disable the stop though.
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Any directions on how to disable this stop, Dave? I'd love to open mine fully.
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Paulbeard
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from '88 onwards? |
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I think it's part 1C in the diagram above, that pin. I don't have it and I get full rotation.
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Currently -> Frida: 87 Tizian Red (mostly) Vanagon GL Westfalia w/ 2.0L ABA conversion
Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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zak99B5
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Location: Albany, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from '88 onwards? |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
| I think it's part 1C in the diagram above, that pin. I don't have it and I get full rotation. |
yes, that' she part, 1C. The question is, how to remove or bypass it easily, as djkeev said.
One could always remove the entire wing window assembly, but that seems like hours of work for both sides.
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Paulbeard
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Wing Window Bentley Section 57 from '88 onwards? |
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Unless you have very tiny hands I don't see that coming out without removing the whole assembly. It looks like it might be threaded (can't tell from the drawing but it's tapered…) so I suspect it doesn't just pull out. It does take some time to R&R as you need to remove the other window as well. Probably one of those "while you're in there, do X, Y, Z…" opportunities (dynamat, lubricating mechanisms, checking for rust/poor drainage, etc.)
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Formerly -> Steward of a 73 Super Beetle (Beater) and 67 Beetle 1300 (Little Max) both names by POs
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