Tightening Valves on Rebuilt

sped372 · Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: Tightening Valves on Rebuilt

We just made it back from the Smoky Mountains - amazing trip by the way. I adjusted the valves every morning before taking off. Seemed to be finally settling in but now, back in the driveway after the last leg, one's tight again. I'm guessing I should pull the engine and have a look at the heads at a minimum. I have an oil leak I can't seem to cure too which I suspect is the front seal. Anybody have any advice? Could the adjusters be causing trouble? I am confident in my adjustment procedure - been doing this for a few years now.

Basically, since putting in the rebuilt if I find one at 0.006 or 0.007 I leave it alone. Figured a hair loose was better than tight. #1 and #2 exhaust have me worried. These are the 'as found' numbers come adjustment time. Again, if I found it at 0.007 I left it so that would account for a few of the running 7's.

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Should I be panicking more than I already am? Can I make it through the rest of this camping season before pulling the engine? Aside from these numbers and the oil leak (drips underneath / maybe 1qt/1500 miles) the thing runs good and cool. I've been averaging 23 mpg (this engine is in the Westy).

I feel pretty bad about waiting as long as I did on a couple of those adjustment procedures. I think I had some bad advice saying it was ok to wait until oil change time. I've been more diligent lately.
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1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

MJulien · Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject:

You could check your compression to determine if your cylinder head is coming loose.

Make sure that the rockers are not coming loose as well. If it is the same valve/valves getting tight, it may be a valve seating in deeper.

As far as adjusting everyday, that may be an overkill to say the least but by doing so you are identifying a possible issue. You should let things settle in since it is new. Typically I reset after 500 miles on a new engine. After that recheck after oil change or start of new driving season. Everyone has a standard, just works for me.

Also, the constant on and off of the valve covers can cause leaks. The seals need to stay tight. You could be causing some seal damage. Carry extra ones with you.

Desertbusman · Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject:

You are correct in checking them real frequently since there is some problem with 1 and 2 exhaust. A big issue here is you didn't tell us what engine it is. A T-1 and T-4 generallly have different issues. I would not expect any significant change in gaps after the initial hundred or so miles after a rebuild. You need to do a lot more investigation before you think about pulling the engine down. There are many things here that could be the problem. Simple like bad adjusting screws or not simple such as a bad start-up and break-in method that could have resulted in a loss of the cam or lifter bores by now. Don't worry about the little cost of new valve cover gaskets. Those are a nothing concern to replace. And R and R of the valve covers don't result in any problems other than putting on new valve cover gaskets.
I would start checking 1 and 2 exh more frequently and more carefully. Also carefully inspecting the rockers, adjusters, etc. Confirm that you actually do have a problem before digging in deeper.
_________________
71 Superbug
71 Westy

73kombi · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:00 am Post subject:

Wow.....you keep great records!

If it's a type IV, I would guess you have issues with 1 & 2 exhaust seats. But the numbers seem to have evened out some....huh? Maybe that's because you check them more often?

Rusty O'Toole · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject:

It would scare the hell out of me but I notice they seem to have settled down once the engine got past the 5000 mile mark.

Maybe someone can tell us if it is normal for valves to sink or bed in that much and if it usually takes so long for it to happen.

I'd keep driving and checking. If they don't get any worse maybe it was just breaking in???

In his signature he mentions a 1600 single port bus so I assume that is what we are talking about.

sped372 · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:15 pm Post subject:

It's a 1600 single port. I will have to check compression - rocker assemblies seemed tight at time of last valve check. I realize once a day seems like a lot but when we were doing hundreds of miles each day on our vacation I felt like I needed to be in there evaluating. How would I know if the adjusters are bad?

Thanks for the input. I'm still not really sure what I should do. I'm still feeling the best would be to pull it and at least take the heads off. I ordered the Tom Wilson book and will probably spend some time educating myself.
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

Desertbusman · Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject:

That's a good first move Wink

_________________
71 Superbug
71 Westy

Kosmo · Samba Member Joined: April 03, 2005 Posts: 300

Hey Bud,

My adjusting nuts were coming loose, and allow valves to get tight.
Make sure you tighten those adjusting nuts really tight after you adjust.

Snug them with a open end, and then crank em down with socket wrench.
After I did this, they stopped tightening up on me.

iratehippie · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:01 am Post subject:

Whats the history on the rebuilt engine/heads? If 2E is tight and pushing into seat, you'll be able to see, as the valve stems won't be in line, 2E will stick out more, keeps getting tight, you keep adjusting. Comp. test asap might tell ya something. Still less than 10,000, it could still be running itself in. Do you have some kind of temp guage?

aeromech · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:05 am Post subject:

Well I guess if your head studs were pulling it would mean your valves would be getting loose so that's out. If they were that could also cause the pushrod tubes to leak.

The engine temp has a whole lot to do with the valve lash so be sure you are actually checking them all at the same temps (like first thing in the morning).

What kind of side play do you have on the rockers? If they move sideways because of broken spring washers that could result in a poor reading with your feeler gauge.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

sped372 · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice here. I always check in the morning after it's sat all night to be cold, cold. I'll check for side-to-side in the rocker next time the covers come off. We're off for a short trip this weekend so I'll put a few miles on in the meantime.

I snug those nuts down pretty good. A good stout pull with the 8" or so wrench seems like plenty of torque on a 13mm nut. I really don't think I'd want to go any tighter than I am already but will keep it in mind.

So if the valves *are* just continually seating deeper what would be the remedy? New heads? Who's reputable for single port stuff? I'd rather pay a bit more to ease my mind and not have to pull the engine again.

Also - no temp gauge but it seems to run really cool. By far cooler than either of the other two VW's we have. As long as it's less than 90F ambient outside I can hold the dipstick indefinitely.

History is that this was a rebuilt longblock purchased from aircooled.net - not much more I can say I guess.
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

aeromech · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject:

what's the details on the rebuild? What was done and how long ago?
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

sped372 · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject:

iratehippie · Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject:

Sounds like your runnin cool enough. Dipstick has always been my temp guage. I would treat the engine with care, do all the maintaince at the right times/milage. Keep checkin those valves, engine may still be getting broke in. I'm driving a 72 with a 1700. It came w/weber and 009. After 6 or so months of questionable running and carb/dist adjusting, I decided to check the valves. TO TIGHT. so I adjust, and the engine ran smooth, no readjusting of timing etc. Drove 600 miles or so(road trip) and the next day, its back to stallin out...So I just check the valves and cyls.1 and 3 ex val. are a little tight. Readjust valves and the engine runs smooth...got 22+ mpg back to oregon, with a bigger load than I went down.

sped372 · Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject:

Just did another adjustment. All ok except #4 intake was .004 - maybe things are settling in...? Didn't feel any undue side to side play in the rocker arm assembly. I could push each sideways but they would spring back. Guessing that's ok?
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX

iratehippie · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:05 am Post subject:

without lookin, it "sounds" okay to me.

SGKent · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:42 am Post subject:

2e would be the one that concerns me. You've seen 4 x .006 loss or .024 which seems like a lot to tighten up on that one valve. That might imply the valve is stretching. Are these new exhaust valves or used ones?
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

73kombi · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:04 am Post subject:

SGKent · Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:55 am Post subject:


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