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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: 1.8T conversion details? Reply with quote

Okay, I have not been paying attention in class so feel free to scold me.

I may end up having the opportunity to procure a 1.8T car complete for free. What are the nitty gritty details concerning this swap?

Who does wiring harnesses?

What is being done about the anti-theft situation?

What engine carrier?

Adapter or bellhousing?

Raised deck or not?

Anything else?

Thanks!
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Grizzly_black
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loogy,

Contact Stephan at Stephan's Auto Haus in Sacramento, CA. His shop is the authority on that conversion! He has a great shop and is a great guy to work with!

Grizz
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1.8T conversion details? Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Okay, I have not been paying attention in class so feel free to scold me.

I may end up having the opportunity to procure a 1.8T car complete for free. What are the nitty gritty details concerning this swap?

Who does wiring harnesses?

What is being done about the anti-theft situation?

What engine carrier?

Adapter or bellhousing?

Raised deck or not?

Anything else?

Thanks!


Chris,

I'm just getting started swapping a 1.8T into a 1990 Corrado. You could definitely handle the wiring interface yourself. The early AEB 1.8T (97-99 Passat, A4) had the simplest wiring with no immobilizer to get around. It also looks like it will be happy with the VSS signal from the cruise control unit that mounts to the back of the speedometer.

If you are going to use a later transverse engine, it might make sense to backdate the sensors to the AEB parts, and then run the engine with the wiring harness and ECU from one of those.

With standard 15 degree mounting, you can use a KEP adaptor kit, but there is also a nice factory bellhousing that was used on the Mexican Bay Window vans from the late 1980s which used a 1.8 Golf motor. I'd go that route for the cleanest install. You'd probably do best fabricating your own crossbar that picks up the factory longitudinal Audi (hydraulic) mounts on factory engine brackets.

Take care,

David
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dredward
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 1.8T conversion details? Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Okay, I have not been paying attention in class so feel free to scold me.

I may end up having the opportunity to procure a 1.8T car complete for free. What are the nitty gritty details concerning this swap?

Who does wiring harnesses?

What is being done about the anti-theft situation?

What engine carrier?

Adapter or bellhousing?

Raised deck or not?

Anything else?

Thanks!

1.)Who does wiring harnesses? I had it done through Stefans Auto Huas.
2.)What engine carrier? I got this through Stephan as well. You'll have to provide your original rear engine carrier as well for him to fab the engine carrier.
3.)Adapter or bellhousing? Kennedy Engineering
4.)Raised deck or not? Yep, Stephan can provide this as well.
5.)Anything else? You'll need to fab exhaust, after dealing with and loseing $ on a complete hack here in town i ended up going through Stephan for this as well. May as well deal with someone who knows what you want and need to complete this job. I got the pipe through a place called Mendrel bending solutions(google it). There are a lot of details(minor) to deal with if you get you supplies through Steph he'll do what he can to help you. Good luck/happy wrenching. I enjoy the hell out of my van now. I am sure you will too
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah cool, thank you guys!

David, this is a '99, so it sounds like I could be in the clear on the immobilizer. That is very cool! I have not done any research here yet, but any idea where to look for one of the Mexican Bus bellhousings? Do you know anything about the clutch activation on these bellhousings?
Your Corrado sounds like a cool project. Did you do your own wiring on it?


Dredward and Grizz, thanks for the tips to contact Stephan. I had considered that, but since I am simply in research mode right now, I really hate to bother them and take time out of their busy day, especially if this deal on the 1.8T car falls through.

The engine carrier, exhaust and raised deck all within my capabilities to fabricate. The only reason that I asked about the engine carrier is that... well, I was not paying attention in class and was not sure if there was an off the shelf part that could be had or not. Since Stephan manufactures his own, I will just follow his lead and build my own too.

As for the wiring, does anyone have a good source for the pinouts for the ECU and a list of necessary items to keep the ECU happy? Again, I have not done any research on this, just asking.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the information.
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chris,

What kind of car is the engine coming out of? If it is a Passat or Audi A4 (AEB engine) you definitely don't have to worry about an immobilizer.

Here is the resource I'm using for the wiring pinouts. It's all there, and there's also a pdf file of the wiring diagram for those cars.

http://myweb.whitman.syr.edu/srotblat/swap/

I am doing my own wiring on the Corrado swap. I've just gotten started (pulled the engine, harness, and ECU) from the donor car last Saturday, so all I have done so far is to tag all the functions and pin splice locations for interface with the Central Electric 2 fuse block. The actual harness was very self-contained, although it may need some length adjustments going from a longitudinal layout to a transverse.

I have always known that in theory the Mexican T2 15 degree bellhousing existed, but recently someone on here pointed me to this link.

http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/Vanagon/Vanagon%20Page.html

It looks to me like the clutch release design is the standard cross shaft with clip on throw out bearing. I'm pretty sure all the Bay Window vans use a clutch cable though so it might take some modifying to come up with the right cross shaft - or of course maybe a T3 one would slip right in. I think I'd try to source some used parts from a Mexican border town, though, instead of paying the price for new parts.

I've owned two 1.8T A4s and currently have a TT with a 1.8T, and really like this engine. It seems like the power, fuel economy, and tuneability are a really good overall compromise.

David
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thanks again David, awesome information. Those links are very helpful. I may eat crow on this, but the wiring looks dead simple compared to the DBW STi wiring.

The car is an A4. I really hope that this deal comes through. In all of the reading that I did last night, there were very few negative comments on the 1.8T and those that were had more to do with the power limits of the 1.8t versus the 2.0T. I have driven a 465 hp 2.0T A3. That kind of power in a stock height/suspended Vanagon would be downright silly. The 1.8T in stock, or slightly hopped up, form should be just right.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would one plan intercooling on such a swap?
IC location will be crucial for better engine performance.

I wouldn't want to run air pipes to the front Exclamation
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kounterkultured wrote:
How would one plan intercooling on such a swap?
IC location will be crucial for better engine performance.

I wouldn't want to run air pipes to the front Exclamation

Behind and to right of pass rear light(half in area behind rear light and half in enging compartment). At least thats how it's done with awp/transverse set-up.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a water to air IC with an extra radiator up front? Less lag this way but still a lot of pipes.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markmc90 wrote:
Maybe a water to air IC with an extra radiator up front? Less lag this way but still a lot of pipes.

Stephans working on an air to water set-up as we speak.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so I secured the wrecked AUDI and I have it here at my place. Some minor items were taken off of the motor that will have to be replaced, but what can I expect for free, huh? The car has a little over 80K on the motor and the timing belt and other things was just replaced about 2000 miles ago.

I sent a few messages to some people, including Eurospec, inquiring about bellhousings, but no one has returned my emails. Due to lack of time, I am seriously considering the Eurospec kit, but one of my questions to them was how much does their kit lower the engine and gearbox? It comes with a new front gearbox mount that looks like it drops the engine and trans down, but I don't know by how much.

Looking over the wiring, it looks like that will not be too bad to tackle.

So the goal right now is to tear the AUDI apart and sell of all of the good pieces to raise money for the conversion parts.

Hey David, is your Corrado running yet?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Okay, so I secured the wrecked AUDI and I have it here at my place. Some minor items were taken off of the motor that will have to be replaced, but what can I expect for free, huh? .....

I sent a few messages to some people, including Eurospec, inquiring about bellhousings, but no one has returned my emails. Due to lack of time, I am seriously considering the Eurospec kit, but one of my questions to them was how much does their kit lower the engine and gearbox? It comes with a new front gearbox mount that looks like it drops the engine and trans down, but I don't know by how much.

Looking over the wiring, it looks like that will not be too bad to tackle.

So the goal right now is to tear the AUDI apart and sell of all of the good pieces to raise money for the conversion parts.



Minor detail, but does this engine use the LDP? (leak detection pump) This is an emissions EVAP component. You mentioned some parts are missing. IF it uses one, if not installed, a code may be thrown from OBD.

FWIW, I'm using the KEP 15* kit on my ABA swap. No issues with it. Works great. (which is nice as I had rebuilt my Vanagon clutch housing not long before swap)

Obviously you will need a Bentley (or maybe Haynes) for the Audi. Test continuity on any cuts you make on harness before installing. Closely inspect wire casings. Especially on engine portion of wiring harness at/near connectors. (heat = cracked casings) If cracked at/near connector, replace wire/contact as one.

Tips on connectors (shows type of contact likely used in your harness):

http://4130-products.com/step/wiring/index.htm

If you don't get 1.8T swap specific questions answered here, check out this VW hybrid forum.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=38

Neil.
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Neil, I appreciate the additional information.

I have not taken any inventory of what exactly is missing, but from a quick scan of theings, it looks like just a couple of hoses and the rear coolant distribution manifold.

I just got word back from Eurospec that the transmission mount included in their kit is to move the gearbox forward due to the bellhousing being 1" longer than stock.
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Okay, so I secured the wrecked AUDI and I have it here at my place. Some minor items were taken off of the motor that will have to be replaced, but what can I expect for free, huh? The car has a little over 80K on the motor and the timing belt and other things was just replaced about 2000 miles ago.

I sent a few messages to some people, including Eurospec, inquiring about bellhousings, but no one has returned my emails. Due to lack of time, I am seriously considering the Eurospec kit, but one of my questions to them was how much does their kit lower the engine and gearbox? It comes with a new front gearbox mount that looks like it drops the engine and trans down, but I don't know by how much.

Looking over the wiring, it looks like that will not be too bad to tackle.

So the goal right now is to tear the AUDI apart and sell of all of the good pieces to raise money for the conversion parts.

Hey David, is your Corrado running yet?


Cool! I'm glad to hear the deal came through on that A4. If you can source one of those Mexico Bay bellhousings, that should be one very clean installation. Have you thought much about an intercooler yet? I was thinking if I ever did a 1.8T in a Vanagon I would use a water to air intercooler in order to keep the charge piping as short as possible.

I've actually had limited car time during the fall and a few other smaller projects to work on, so the Corrado 1.8T project hasn't really gotten any further than acquiring the engine and researching the wiring interface. The plan is to pull the old motor and start the conversion of the 1.8T to transverse accesories starting next week.

David
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man-O-man, it's hard to believe that it's been a year already.

The Audi has been parted out and the funds came in at right around $1000.00. So far I have spent roughly $750.00 on parts to replace the broken ones and a few replacement parts that will make installation easier (1995 VR6 water pump pulley - to eliminate the power steering pump - and a 2004 Golf 1.8T cooling hose flange/distribution pipe - to make hose routing easier). I also purchased a Mexican Bus bellhousing, TDI flywheel, VR6 pressure plate, and a bunch of miscellaneous wiring connectors, clips and wire.

I have decided that the ECU and new power and fuel pump relays will be placed to the right and forward of the engine compartment in a pocket made specifically for them. This pocket will be integrated into the raised rear deck area, so it will all look perfectly integrated. This arrangement allows me to use the Audi engine wiring harness nearly 100% complete. All of the necessary wires coming from the Vanagon will be re-routed over to that area and the interface between the Vanagon and Audi wiring will take place near the ECU and relays through the use of new multi-pin connectors to make the installation as clean and simple as possible.

The air intake will be located in the left side plenum and the intercooler will be air/water.

Almost exactly a year ago, I spent a good part of my Thanksgiving vacation creating some wiring interface charts and diagrams. I started out by identifying all of the ECU pins followed by identifying all of the pertinent wires that need to be interfaced with the Vanagon wiring. I created a wiring diagrams that will help me interface the power supply relay and the fuel pump relay to the Audi and Vanagon wiring.

What I plan on doing is creating a new sub-harness that will plug into the existing Vanagon wiring and interface with the new multi-pin connectors to create a complete plug and play system.

This Thanksgiving holiday was spent re-familiarizing myself with what I had done and making a few minor changes. I also converted my chicken scratch hand drawn schematic for one that anyone can read.

Here is what I have so far:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by Christopher Schimke on Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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dredward
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet!!!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dredward wrote:
Sweet!!!!!
I agree! this should help out on my wiring! thanks, Greg Very Happy
Although it looks like you already have a plan check out my build thread. 1.8T at 50 deg. under the decklid! Twisted Evil http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5083773-Westy-1.8T-at-50deg.-Under-the-decklid
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update. The more I learn about this swap the more I like it. Nice to see progress on another project. Keep us posted! I'm currently in the middle of a 2.5 Subie conversion, but if I need more power (who doesn't?! Twisted Evil ) I'll go this route. Joel
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to your take on this Chris. Whats the story with the mexican bellhouding btw? Angle? Clutch?
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