A Dirty Fuel Tank Saga - What Will Happen Next? Tune In...

[VWDog]

[busdaddy]

[VWDog]

Well, I guess I am now on the hunt for some stoppers, lol Thanks Busdaddy for the great info and clarifications!
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1970 Lotus White Single Cab 2015- , 1979 Sage Green 2014-2015, 1978 Dakota Beige Westy 2012-2015, 1978 Neptune Blue Riviera 2012-2017 , 1970 Neptune Blue Bus 2010-2012, 1970 Deluxe Savannah Beige 2010-2012, 1985 Iltis 2010- , 1962 Single Cab 2010-2013, 1975 Brasilia? Bay/Split Kombi from Brazil 2008-2011, 1985 DoKa 1999-2009, 1971 Bus 1999-2000, 1968 Double Cab 1991-1998, 1965 Ghia 1987-1991, 1970 Westfalia-bought by Mum and Dad in 1970, sold by me in 1993 why-oh-why :_(

[vwwestyman]

I've cleaned a couple tanks pretty successfully without (m)any terrible chemicals.

My '73 sat for 10 or 12 years before I got going on it. Its gas had evaporated leaving a nasty orangey residue everywhere. (In the carb and everywhere.) Also had some rust and all that.

I just put some soapy water in there, and chain. Shook the hell out of it for some time so that the chain was able to knock all the crap out/off.

Then I dumped that out and washed/rinsed it well afterward. I think the last rinse was with hot water to aid quick evaporation. It certainly wouldn't hurt to use hot water in the rest of the process and I may have.

As soon as I did that, I hooked up a fan to one of the outlets (I think the sender hole) and used that to dry the tank. Then I sloshed something around in it to coat the insides and prevent rust as discussed. I think I probably used some PB Blaster from the metal can (sold with a sprayer for refilling).

I don't think it matters much what you use for this, just some kind of oily stuff that will coat the inside of the tank until it is filled with gasoline. I liked the PB Blaster because it is very fluid and in my view easiest to get splashed all over.

I did this same process to my old motorcycle's tank that was rusty and it didn't rust up again as long as I had the bike, and I could easily see into the tank every time I filled it.

I'm confident that the '73s tank is just as clean.

So this is an option for folks who don't want to mess with the chemicals. I'm not scared of the acids; I used them to clean and prep heat exchangers and other parts. But I just didn't use them in my tank. YMMV
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[busdaddy]

[otiswesty]

This past weekend my to do list included pulling and cleaning the gas tank on my 78. Unfortunately my install of a BN4 heater back in 1999 created a huge problem. The ducting adjacent to the tank would necessitate removal of the whole interior cabinetry to get the duct out in order top rotate the tank. The BN4 itself and its attachment to the firewall made the fire wall removal much more difficult as well.

I decided to leave the tank in place. looking through the sender hole, I could see little rubber pieces adjacent to the outlet. I fished these out with a long grabber tool from home depot.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/GrabEasy-Grabber-and-Retriever-PF0401/202505170
There was a wire projecting up out of the gas tap that seemed fixed in place.

I pulled those little pieces out and found one larger piece after sweeping about with a coat hanger! The larger piece was bigger than anything missing off of my filler's bird beak, so it must have been floating around in there at least since my last paint job in 1996 which oversprayed onto my current filler neck elbow.

The smell of gas in the van appeared to be related to the large connector hose from the filler tube to the tank. It looked just like the Ratwell photo with lots of linear cracks and even had gasoline wetness on the dependent aspect of it. I had ordered the Sprinter hose as it looked like this is the new solution, but had Richard's large radiator hose already cut down to size ready to go in a box in the garage. I went over to Halsey to pick up a new filler neck since it was all coming out.

Being unable to get the gas tank moved, I replaced the filler neck elbow and connector tube in place. A contortionists pain for sure. The new filler neck was the thin garbage kind and will be returned ASAP.

I cored out the broken bird beak from my current nice and otherwise supple filler neck with a Dremel tool and used it for the reinstall.

In retrospect, I wish I had indexed it with a sharpie prior to removing it from the filler tube. It would have made the reinstall much easier.

The Sprinter connector tube is slightly smaller than the old cracked stock tube and also smaller than the Ratwell recommended replacement. I could not get it on to the tank or down pipe despite heating it up and oiling the inner surface. I gave up and used my rubber tube that Richard Atwell had recommended. It went on easy and I got everything clamped and reinstalled.

Once it was all back together, the bus would crank but not start. I suspected a small piece of rubber crammed down into the outlet when I was fishing around. I decided to replaced the small rubber lines coming out of the tank. What a God awful mess. Jeez.

The wire was introduced up into the tap from underneath, I decided to leave it in place (reinstalled) as there was more rubber missing from my filler neck than I had gotten out of the tank, so likely a future fishing job will be required.

Still wouldn't start, it turns out I had forgotten to plug the AFM back in, doh!
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab

Just a regular guy

[otiswesty]

There was a little speckling in the bottom of the tank. No loose rust that I could see or appreciate though. The bus has never sat for more than 6 months without being driven, so that has likely been protective for the tank. No glaze or sludge that I could see either. I will pull and change the fuel filter this coming week.
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab

Just a regular guy

[Tcash]

There was a wire projecting up out of the gas tap that seemed fixed in place.
Never have seen this. Is the wire in the gas tap hole. Or is it possibly welding wire?
Tcash

[otiswesty]

The wire is pushed up through the gas tap hole from below to keep debris from occluding the hole. I had a buddy of mine suggest putting a elongated spring from a Bic pen up the gas tap for the same purpose. It looks like some one else got there first.
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1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab

Just a regular guy

[ToolBox]

[Tcash]

[chift]

Alright, I got a real ugly tank full of sludge

So my plan as listed here is:
1)Acid wash (muriatic acid)
2) Phosphoric Acid (I can't seem to find this in canada since Rust-mort/ospho is not available, any canadians chime in?)
3) ATF bath (I assume this is Automatic transmission fluid?)

I'm going to skip the baking soda step.

[onion456]

interesting to see this thread pop up again, and that i had posted in it before, complaining about an 'oily film' in the bottom of my tank that i was having a hard time getting rid of...

i kept on with that tank until i was satisfied, and sealed it with POR-15... well, i think it lasted a year or two (have to look at the dates of my previous posts) and the POR-15 treatment failed, peeled off inside the tank and created blockages. it was a horrible experience- i tried everything i could think of to knock the stuff loose, dissolve it, whatever, and it just did not work. i ended up cutting the tank in half, thinking its junk anyway, maybe i can clean it up with a wire wheel/grinder and weld it back up again.. welding was a no-go, i dont possess the skills =P tank went to the trash and i got a new used tank.

anyway, i contacted POR-15 to see if they sell anything that would dissolve it; they said they were working on something that should be on the market soon but not ready yet. they also asked me if i had used marine clean and metal ready, as the instructions for the sealer state. i told them i had used muriatic acid, rather than marine clean, but i did use the metal-ready. they said ah well if you didnt use the product per the instructions, you might not get the intended results, and we cant guarantee anything... i wasnt looking for a guarantee, i told them, i was looking for a product that would dissolve the epoxy =P anyway...

just thought i would share this, if youre planning to POR-15 your tank, you might want to follow the instructions to the T and use thier proper preparation products. after this experience, i will never attempt to seal another gas tank again.
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'76 Sage Green Westy 2.0 FI
'76 Creamsicle 7-passenger 2.0 CS FI
'85 Tan Westy

[busdaddy]

Another reason why I prefer the Bill Hirsch product, MEK gets it out if you ever need to. I wonder if paint stripper would cut that POR 15?

Chift, welcome!
If the tank is full of sludge start by dumping in a gallon of methyl hydrate (methanol) sealing it up and letting it soak a few days+, give it a shake and roll it around now and then. You have to get the goo off before the acid can do it's thing on the rust, a couple feet of chain or some gravel in there with the MH helps break it up as well. Save it in a bucket and rinse the tank with water, if there's still sticky brown stuff in there dump the MH back in and soak a few more days.
Rust mort is available from automotive paint supply stores in Canada, hydroponic garden stores have phosporic acid as well (active ingredient in Ospho and Rust mort).
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[chift]

Thanks busdaddy!

I'm going to do that tonight (the methyl hydrate). Couple questions:

1) Best way to seal it up?
2) Should I pressure wash the inside first?

I will keep you posted on the progress. Here's the first picture.

[busdaddy]

I doubt a pressure washer will touch that mess, yuk! Soak it with the MH, you'll be suprised how much comes off.

I usually fabricate a steel disc to fit the sender hole and use the retainer ring to keep it in place, the filler neck can be capped with a plumbing test cap from Home depot, the small vent lines can be connected to each other with hose, same for the outlet nipples.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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[chift]

Alright folks (a big thank you to busdaddy for all the help through this process), here's what I ended up doing:

1. Put Methyl hydrate(MH) in with a  chain and shook it around, I left this for a few days while shaking it two to three times a day.

2. Removed the MH

3. Poured in Muriactic Acid (half gallon of water/half gallon of acid), shook the tank again.Remember to pour acid into the water and not the other way around. I left it for a few hours.

4. Removed the Acid and poured more MH in with the chain (it still had some varnish). sloshed it around and left it over night. (

5. Poured out the MH and rinsed the tank with water until it came out clean.

6. Put in phosphoric acid (1 pint of RustMort). Sloshed it around left it for about 30 min

7. Poured out the phosphoric acid and then rinsed the tank a few times
Dried the tank with a hair dryer (I did do another MH rinse to help get rid of the water prior to drying)

8. Coated the inside with ATF since I won’t be putting gas in right away.

9. Now i’m painting the outside with Tremclad Rust paint

[Sage79]

Just got done with a tank. The thing I would add is that what took the "tar", goo, varnish--whatever you call, it was Drano Crystals (basically Lye) as advocated on an antique car forum. Lacquer thinner (can't find MH and LT should be stronger) dissolved it partially but I could see it would take forever. The Drano CRYSTALS got rid of it pretty quickly, pretty much while you wait. (Liquid Drano and many other drain cleaners are different compositions which will have different results).

Other than that as the first step, I followed BD's advice pretty much like chift and now have a like-new tank.
_________________
Dirk
'79 Westy 2.0FI
'73 Sportsmobile 1.7dual Solex 003Auto - now my daughter's
'77 delux 2.0FI 090Auto - now my son's

[busdaddy]

[busdaddy]

Another POR-15 horror story: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674836
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!