Who has driven BOTH a Bostig van AND a 2.5 Subaru van?

[ftp2leta]

[ftp2leta]

Good post.

Ok ok ok, each time i go get my engine I end up in that crazy place, where i guy crave about Subi. Each time he make me try new cars with different engines, the STI engine/car is simply a monster. It'S stock at around 300hp, it's a pretty light car for that kind of scary power.

When i walk in that alibaba cave i'm surrounded with all Subi engine, all more new than each other, I now, i found the jack pot. Last time i drove there, 19 engines where on the floor ready to be pick up. 3 STI, 3 WRX, 9 2.5L, 2 SVX (yes!), a few H6, 2 XT (250hp) and 2 or 3 2.2.

All can be fitted pretty easily in a Vanagon except the H6.

Dylan, 3 week ago i have test driven a 1.8T in a Vanagon, it's the 155hp or so version, it's not even close to a WRX engine., it's miles away. The WRX will simply eat your transmission and van, the STI will ripped your van appart. PERIOD.

So please guys, as for power and easy fit in your Vanagon, the Subaru line up is the real deal.

Most of you have no idea of how powerful those Subi boxer engine can be, 95% of you guys even never saw a Subi conversion.

I did 35! A stock 2007 2.5L as over 175hp, your van as 80hp as best as we speak. That is twice the power and torque.

Bought me a car for this winter, a 98 Impreza, beaten to death by a young kid, paid 500 an invested 2000$ + labour.

My little 2.2L in my car as shaved head, long duration cam, bigger injectors and a tuned ECM, That engine is now pushing that car like crazy, it's such a small engine....

Right now, in my shop I have 4 x 2.5L + 1 for testing, i could have simply take one and stuff it in my car, no, i took the hard path and decided to see what can the venerable 2.2L as to offer with some small mod.... i now don't even need a 2.5L.

I have spent the last 5 days stripping that car, putting an all new power plant, differential, transmission, clutch, drive shaft, suspension, wheel bearing, drive axle, bushing, ball joint, brake, suspension , interior... tonight was my first real test, 100 miles. What an amazing car it is! I didn't know nothing about Subi car 1 week ago, funny! Now i could show Subaru how their car are built.

A little reminder:


Link

[insyncro]

Ben,
I agree.
Anyone putting 275 + horsepower into a Vanagon better use a G50 or really beef up the stock trans.
I am running a EG33 with larger injectors and appropriate mapping.
I will just say it is more HP than stock.
It is bolted to a stock Syncro transmission with over 100k miles on it.
It is all in the way you drive, IMHO.
Romp on the gas and it will blow quickly.
This van has been my test platform for many upgrades and it is still going strong.
I will say that I nut and bolt it often, meaning tighten everything up.
Especially the connection between the engine, adapter and transmission.

Yes, the STI versions are neck snapping.
1% of convertors will even consider that engine.
The 1.8T can be worked as well with larger turbo, timer and engine controls to give excellent power.
It is an option for those who want to keep a VW a VW.
Trust me they are out there.

Bottomline, whatever engine you choose, it can be worked and reworked for more power than stock.
The only factor that really matters when it come to power is how big your budget is, period.

dylan

[Sir Sam]

[ftp2leta]

Here is a reply from Daryl from AA Transaxle (same question posted elsewhere), it's an interesting comparison and he is probably one of the few who as driven both and even some other.

But I know Daryl, and he is a Ford lover

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I have driven both on numerous occasions...Driven lots of the 2.2 and 2.5 (turbo
too) and even some 3.3's in my quest for correct gearing of the trannys in front
of each engine.
I own a Syncro Westy with a 30K Zetec in it. Just got back from a Wet Westies
event and put another few hundred peacefull quiet miles on mine at about 20mpg.
Zetec is a higher revving engine..not unlike the Tiico or any I-4. DOHC with a
usable power band of 2000 to 5000 RPM(and above) A tiny bit less bottom end than
a 2.2 since its is a smaller motor. Less for sure than a 2.5. Although I
followed a 2.5 down to SDM this year and we pretty much kept even including up
the Siskyou Mtn 7% grades. Drop her down to 3rd at 55 or 60 and she loved it.
Kept to 65 or even 70 that way.
I find the bottom end of 4th gear to be the one spot I wils it had more power,
but after you get uses to it, you drive differently by staying in gear
longer..not a real world problem.
I can also gear them with a bit taller 3rd and a shorter 4th to make that go
away as well.
No vibratons.
Less ground clearance in the totally stock configuration by about an inch or so.
Spring spacer fix that.
I kept up with the other big boy syncro's at Mogfest on the Jeep trails of
Tilamook Forrest with a bit of slow speed clutch work (read slipping) and had a
ball.
The conversion will run you abour $5500 total depending on what you want new or
what your willing to buy used.
Presently there are brand spankin new crate motors available for $1300.Needless
to say, everyone is using one of those lately. (I got a spare)
Like wa said..Lots of differences and hard to compare the various varieties. My
suggestion is contact the Bostig boys and see if there is a Bostig near you and
drive it. Not california legal either.
I'm on digest, so call or pmail with any questions..

Daryl of AA Transaxle
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[insyncro]

Great post.
Question answered.

[TroySmith80]

Yeah, that was a great response from Daryl.

Well thanks to the very friendly and helpful people out there in Vanagon-land, i got to drive 2 vans yesterday and ride in another.

There was a VERY clear winner in the engine conversion debate. It had easily the most power and was probably the smoothest and quietest as well. It was Eric's STI-powered TriStar! Haha, ok well it may be disqualified due to the cost aspect of that particular swap! Seriously though, that thing is incredible. There are 2 things i can tell you about that: 1) It is SILLY fast 2)Eric is not especially concerned about speeding tickets!

Back to the topic at hand though, I was able to drive a 2.2 powered Westy Weekender (also converted by Eric) and a Bostig V2.0 Passenger Van. Power in either was absolutely grin-inducing compared to my waterboxer and i'm now even more excited about this whole project.

I'll get into my drive observations. Take them for what they're worth. I drove each for maybe 10-20 minutes and it was not back-to-back. So it's by no means conclusive, but was very helpful to me, and i'll try to share my experience.

The Bostig was a very clean installation, lots of open space in the engine bay, pretty simple to see and access most things. VERY beefy aluminum engine adapter plate, that baby was over 1/2" thick! This van had lower than normal springs, which combined with the Bostig engine resulted in very low clearance. Maybe 5-7" (don't quote me on that, i didn't measure, just guesstimating). I thought the engine pulled happily from lower RPM than the waterboxer, without a lot of shaking and shuddering as some engines will do at very low RPM (1,000-2,000). From 2,000 on it pulled quite linearly. It did shake/vibrate more than i expected, and was somewhat loud. I was a bit surprised by both of those factors. I'm curious if there was something specific to that particular van. Daryl mentioned his being very smooth. I have heard from one other person that a Bostig that they drove was rough and loud as well. I wonder if there are some factors that can make that vary from one van to the next.

Anyway, the Bostig had stock gearing and it was pretty well suited to it. Overall i was impressed by the power and driveability, but pretty disappointed in the noise/shake.

The Subaru 2.2 was an earlier OBD-1 model, it had around 130K at time of swap. This one really made me excited to do my swap! It was extremely smooth and fairly quiet. Much better in both regards than the Bostig. There was a little power-steering noise sometimes, but not terrible. The engine idled down around 700 RPM or so and was smooth as glass. I was very surprised by how well the van pulled from down low with the 2.2. Very impressive. This one was geared stock except for 4th which was taller but not as tall as the .77, owner couldn't remember for sure but thought maybe .83 4th.

This convinced me that Subaru will be the way to go for me, and has put the 2.2 solidly in the list of contenders. Previously, i had discounted the 2.2 due to the fact that there is a 2.5. But now i see that it has great power and is much more readily available and cheaper. Also, the OBD-1 is appealing because the fewer things I have to do to "trick" the computer, the more confident I am that i'll have an absolutely trouble free driver(no obnoxious little weird problems).

So for me, I'm going to keep an eye out for a good deal on a wrecked subaru. I actually see SVXs pretty cheap every so often (cheaper than a late-model 2.5) and am considering that. Mileage would not be as good but the power must be mind-blowing (or would be, if my brain wasn't already plastered against the headrest of Eric's TriStar). I think i might be happiest overall with a 2.5 but i know even the 2.2 will give me an ear-to-ear grin.

The Bostig guys are to be commended, their installation looks great and the owner of the van was happy with the results and very happy that he had done it himself. It's too bad they can't get that engine in there at an angle like the VW 1.8T. I also am curious why that van was rather loud and shakey, I can't help but think that other's with the Bostig may not be so bad in that regard.

Anyway, that's my take, for what it's worth (~1.5¢)
_________________
1984 Westfalia Wolfsburg - 2.5L Subaru - Sold - Preparing to move to the dark side (4x4 Ford van)

[Rhinoculips]

I'm glad you put the EJ22 on the table. It is an amazing engine! People see the EJ25 with more power and think its a better engine and forget about the EJ22.
_________________
“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds.” - Edward Abbey

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[mtnwater]

Nice work Troy - seeing, driving, and comparing is the only way to get a good idea of the differences. Your findings with respect to noise/vibration/harshness, however, are the complete opposite of my experience.

My EJ 22 was loud and had a bit of a rough growl to it. I tried two different headers and three different mufflers - no joy.

The zetec, in contrast, is smoooooth and amazingly quiet. Sounds like the install you saw may have had some issues...

Just know that there can be some very significant variability with conversions, particularly with the subaru's.

Best of luck!

[TroySmith80]

Yeah, it's interesting. In either case, subaru or bostig, some apparently are smooth and quiet, and some are rough and loud.

I sure wish i knew why that was. I would guess that intake plumbing could be a significant factor, as well as exhaust.

The 2.2 that i drove had Eric's Porsche 911 muffler setup on it, and an open cone filter in the rear driver side of engine bay.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Wolfsburg - 2.5L Subaru - Sold - Preparing to move to the dark side (4x4 Ford van)

[ftp2leta]

[TroySmith80]

thanks for the tips, Ben.

I didn't SEE any vibration on the bostig. In fact, when we started it up and were just looking, i commented on how smooth it looked. And i rested my hand on the valve cover and there was almost no movement. Driving was a different story though.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Wolfsburg - 2.5L Subaru - Sold - Preparing to move to the dark side (4x4 Ford van)

[wcdennis]

If you do a little research on basic engine geometry you will come across this:

[Williamtaylor33]

[TroySmith80]

It was a V2.0, completed within the last several weeks. Brand new Ford Racing motor.

I want to be clear though, i would be absolutely thrilled to have a Bostig in my van. The improvement over stock is huge, and the install looked great. I just happen to personally like the subaru a little better.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Wolfsburg - 2.5L Subaru - Sold - Preparing to move to the dark side (4x4 Ford van)

[Crughy]

[quote="wcdennis"]If you do a little research on basic engine geometry you will come across this:

[redcanoe]

Troy where did you manage to find a couple of vans to try out ? Westy gathering of somekind.

Fantastic thread, great reading

[wcdennis]

[quote="Crughy"]

[ftp2leta]

[quote="Crughy"]

[TroySmith80]

Through the Yahoo Subaru Vanagon group i've been doing a little networking. I also called the guys at Bostig and they hooked me up with a gentleman who had recently installed their kit. All these people were in Portland so i drove over there for the day on Sunday. A bit of a drive for me, but well worth the education.