The RIGHT way to change wheel studs?

[thewump]

Talking about rear wheel studs. So I worked it out, and got it done would love to know the right way to do it, and I don't think this is it for the reasons stated.

Old stud removal.
Once I had the hubs off I just hammered them out but I imagine that probably compressed the threads a bit.. so not ideal.

New stud insertion.
I guess a big fat press - but I don't have one, so what's the DIY method?

I tried hammering and was making an utter balls of the back of the stud so decided that wasn't the right way.

Then I took a big ass nut, put it over the stud, lubricated both surfaces and used an impact wrench and a lug nut to pull the studs through. It took some serious effort on the part of the impact wrench so I'm thinking this isn't ideal either. I did take the precaution of only using a lug nut once for this so I didn't knacker one, but in the end did completely knacker a stud in the process.

TIA

K
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87 Weekender

[albiwan]

I have new studs waiting to be installed. Still haven't tackled the job but intend to next weekend.

My plan for installation is to use my bench vise. I intend to put the back of the stud against the vise, and position a deep socket against the other side of the vise, to allow for the stud to pass through, and gradually turn until the studs are seated.

What I am unsure of is how much torque it will take. I thought I could saw/grind a notch into an old 1/2 socket and fashion an extender for the arm of the vise, so I can use a breaker bar to help turn if necessary.

So that's my plan that does not involve hammering. Don't know if it will work.

[Christopher Schimke]

A press of some sort is the best method for installing wheel studs. Even a large vise can be used as a press.

Studs can be installed using a hammer, but proper hub support is critical and the use of a large brass drift between the hammer and the stud will help prevent damage to the head of the stud. It can be very difficult to get the stud to install straight with the hammer method, so extreme care must be taken.

The absolute worst method would be to use a lug nut to pull the stud through the hub. The reason for this is because it is very likely that the torque required to do so will exceed the yield strength of the stud. Once the yield strength is exceeded, the stud is no longer safe to use.

What is yield strength? Think of the stud (or any other bolt for that matter) as a spring. When you torque a fastener down, it stretches like a spring. The tension that builds as the fastener is stretched creates the clamping load that holds the two parts together. Just like a spring, when the fastener is stretched too far, it will not return to it's original shape. And again, just like the spring, if it will not return to it's original shape, it can not handle the load that it was originally designed for. However, when a fastener's yield strength is exceed, the fastener becomes week and will break (at least eventually) when the necessary torque load is applied.

I'm sure there are many people who have gotten away with installing studs the way that you described, but I think that they are playing with fire.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[thewump]

Not what I wanted to hear loogy! I tried using the vice but couldn't get the torque. In hindight I wish I'd found a 5cm hex nut so that with the pull method at least I was spreading all the load across all the threads..

Oh.. here's a thought though.. the threads that were being used during this process on the stud (near hub end) were not the same threads that are being used to attach the wheel (near the pointy end)! Ahah!

Will be updating my order to you that we've been discussing for a full set of lug nuts as they were part of the process and could have been weakened. Feeling a bit better now

K
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87 Weekender

[danfromsyr]

just a word of caution. I've broken my vise using it as a press.
there is little better then the right tool for the job.
you can take them down to your friendly local auto garage with a press, and ask them to press them in for cheap?
bring doughnuts, mechanics like doughnuts as much as cops.

put the parts on the counter next to a dozen doughnuts..
ask "Do you have a press?" they'll get the message.
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[a914622]

You should be fine using the lug nut / old rim method. You would deform the rim way before you reach the "yield strength of the stud".

For one the force required to press the studs in is FAR less than the stud or the nut stretch point. Holding the wheel on IE factory spec , Will be more that enough to pull the studs into the hub..

jcl
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[Christopher Schimke]

[a914622]

In reading this I kinda have to laugh a little. It should take about 50 lbs to press the Straight Knurl into the already deformed hub.If you start the studs in with a little tap from a small hammer and finish pulling the studs into place with an old wheel YOU SHOULD BE FINE.. I agree A press would be better and the right way to do it, But if your doing one set not cost effective.

Given the above theory on pressures and stretches for yield strengths there shouldn't be a porsche on the road without a wobbly stud. After all there hubs are aluminum, and cast aluminum on the 944s.

And were did I get my theary from??? 25 years of making threads for J-threads to Acme, plastic to Monale.

jcl
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[Christopher Schimke]

[stevey88]

You really should have the right tool. Get a cheap press like this and it will last many years.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1667

I decide to buy one after spending $20 for the machine shop to press out the studs from the front hubs and press in longer studs for my 911. I bought mine over ten years ago ( paid $120 not from HF) and have been using it to press wheel bearings, press out piston pins, etc. For my Vanagons, I have used it to rebuild steering rack ( press out bushings and the rubber mountings ), change rear wheel bearings and press out/press in drive shafts from the CV joints.
If you live near one of their retail store, there is no shipping charges. Sign up for their email letters and you will get 20% off coupons frequently. I am fortunate enough to live near one and I only buy stuff when I get a 20% off coupon. However, I do not buy electrical powered tools from them.
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Steve

87 Westfalia full camper 4 speed

[Sodo]

Posting in this OLD thread (from 2009...) because IMHO .... I believe it has wrong information. Sorry Christopher I know this is awhile ago but it's on TheSamba where our people will come across it and feel it's my duty.....

Using a lugnut to pull the new stud into the hole does not damage the stud, unless, to achieve proper installation, you overtighten the stud. I can imagine there is a variance in installation forces between stud MFRs etc.

But I have studs (from T3 Technique) and using a lugnut to set them, required similar wrench torque to tightening lugnuts when I put a wheel on. Not a chance in damage in this case. For any bolt (stud) there is a maximum recommended torque that can be applied before damaging the stud, and if you are below that torque, no damage occurs (it's just a normal bolted joint).

I submit that you'd need at least a 2-foot cheater bar (and fully REEFING on it) to damage a 14mm wheel stud. So if your install procedure can be done with normal length wrenches, there is no chance of damage. These T3 longer studs "seem" to fit about as tight as the OEM studs that came out.

I made a little stackup of spacers and bolts to protect the bearings before hammering the OEM studs out. Here's pics.

Setting up a spacer arrangement to protect rear wheel bearings from hammer blows.
The M10 bolt is tightened outward to press against the rear wheel hub, transferring the hammer blows to the hub
and protecting the (precious) wheel bearings.
12-point 19mm socket is just big enough to accept the head of the OEM stud.

Using the lugnut to pull the new stud into its hole.

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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Christopher Schimke]

No need to be sorry, but I still (and the manufacturers still) recommend against drawing the studs in with a lug nut. I have said it before and I'll say it again - I have had to send replacement studs to many, many customers who tried doing it that and messed up the studs. While it may work for some, it's not a 100% fool-proof method of installing studs and because of that, it's not recommended.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Terry Kay]

As mentioned in the title to this thought;
The RIGHT WAY to install studs is via a press.

Nothing else is RIGHT.
And there ya go.
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T.K.

[Sodo]

[Sodo]

Ok the epilogue here is:

This was the install on MY van. Your hubs and studs may vary. YHSMV

Edit: ooops This was done on a rear-disc-brake van. On a drum brake van you can't do it like this. If you remove the hubs you can easily change the studs with a hammer. Or a hydraulic press. Or a vise.

It took appx 50 ft-lbs to draw the stud knurls onto their bores. Installing the wheels, I tightened the studs to their recommended max install Torque, 90 ft-lbs. Some of the studs felt like they drew in further when tightening the wheel nuts.

Next day I checked every stud tightness again and almost all of them took "a little more", like they relaxed overnight. This is normal. So I'll drive it (with luck, SOON) then check again to be really sure they are no longer moving/seating.

I'm certain that wheel studs can be changed properly by drawing them in with lugnuts. If anybody is breaking their wheel studs with less than 90 ft-lbs, that stud was defective and did not belong on the roadway.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[PDXWesty]

I mean for $60 you can buy a bench top press from HF that will do the job. I had never done this particular job but it was easy with even a cheap press. Now I have it for other things if needed.

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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[Zeitgeist 13]

I suspect most folks are installing longer studs AND still have the stock drum brakes with the backing plate, so the hub will need to be removed no matter what. If so, there's no reason not to use a press
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[PDXWesty]

[IdahoDoug]

I once used a hammer to pound the old out and new ones in on my LandCruiser. It was really fast and really easy. Shop had overtightened my lug nuts with an air hammer and I broke one trying to change out to winter wheels. So I changed them all figuring they were all suspect at that point. With the hub out, it was really fast - faster than messing with the press, actually.

And it was extremely easy to tell from the hammer sound when they hit home. Another hit for effect and move to the next one.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader