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kenbug67
Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2009
Posts: 36
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: Flashing tail and semaphores |
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Hi all,
I assume most of you are using chip's wonderful product? I was looking at all the discussions on flashing semaphores.and LEDs and the wiring diagrams .. Seems to have flashing semaphores, flashing signal and the snowflake portion as the running light only .. It can't be done. Can some one help?? Seems the easiest way is for the snowflake to flash only and the stop / running lights to run same circuit...
I really want to have snowflake as the running lights and the the rest of the vertical LEDs (assume talking with respect to chips product) to work as signal/stop. Bearing in mind we are using flashing semaphores.. Did I confuse anyone?
Ken |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24119
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| GLHTurbo wrote: |
Technostalgia has just introduced an LED retro fit kit to convert any 1956-61 VW beetle to ultra bright LED rear lights.
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I bought a set of these from bad-mab.com, and they work great. Bad-mab is fast and quick to order from, and I wasn't even charged postage.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
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audidood
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006
Posts: 231
Location: nor*cal
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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@Blue Baron: I also just picked up a pair of these. Are our signals working fine? was there anything special that you needed to do to get yours to work properly?
after installation, the brake and tail lights worked great, but now my turn signals only blink once every 4-5 seconds. i took them back off and put the stock tails back in, and the blinkers work fine again. 
Is there some kind of relay that you need to install as well? or was it straight plug and play for you?
thanks
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2004.5 Audi A4
1956 VW Bug
a (not so) wise man once said, "chrome don't get you home." |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24119
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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My tailights and signals work perfect. Is your car 6 or 12 volt? Mine is 12 volt. My car is a '56, which uses one dual filament bulb per side like original.
On my '61, someone had substituted a later turn signal switch, and the taillight was modified for a separate turn signal bulb instead of combining the brakes and turn signals in a single bulb. When ordering from Bad-Mab, I specified "dedicated turn signal wire." It cost $25 extra, but the taillights now function properly, and as a bonus it includes a safety feature where the brake lights blink twice fast when you first apply the brakes. I've seen this feature on motorcycles, but never on cars. (This setup would also work for later cars backdated to earlier taillights, not that anyone would do that.)
The tailights also have a unique feature where they're actually turned off for 5/100th of a second. The other 95% of every second they're on. It's so fast you can't see it, but it gives the taillights a glowing effect that's hard to describe. But this is only on the modified set, not the standard set.
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Chip 
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| A new relay can be bought as well. Nolt sure why your 56 has a dedicated turn wire. It shouldn't unless its had a harness swap. Stock 56 has only 2 wires to the rear, turn/brake and park. A single dual filament bulb will perform these functions correctly IF you have the right 6 wire turn signal switch. My LEDs are built to function just like stock, 2 wires control the lights. You can get a LED specific relay at your local auto parts store. I use the Tridon EP35 for my installs, and sell them to my customers when they request one. They work great for 12v. |
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audidood
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006
Posts: 231
Location: nor*cal
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Chip B. wrote: |
A new relay can be bought as well. ...
You can get a LED specific relay at your local auto parts store. I use the Tridon EP35 for my installs, and sell them to my customers when they request one. They work great for 12v. |
Awesome thanks for the tip! and now for a follow-up question: how is this installed? do you replace the flasher unit with this, or is this something that is installed inline somewhere? I'd really like to be able to rock the LED tail lights if i can just get the signals going.
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[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/audidood/IMG_4070.jpg?t=1365009618[/img]
2004.5 Audi A4
1956 VW Bug
a (not so) wise man once said, "chrome don't get you home." |
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Chip
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Its a new flasher, it replaces the old one. needs 12v, ground, and hooks to the switch/dash light. Easy. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24119
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Chip B. wrote: |
| Not sure why your 56 has a dedicated turn wire. It shouldn't unless its had a harness swap. Stock 56 has only 2 wires to the rear, turn/brake and park. |
Reread my post. The '56 hasn't been changed, but the '61 (I have TWO CARS and I bought TWO SETS) has been modified to a later turn signal column switch and wiring. In order to use the old taillight I needed a dedicated turn signal wire because the functions are not combined in a single bulb.
On my '56 the Bad-Mab unit worked perfectly. I have a standard 12-volt flasher relay. On the '61 I needed the dedicated turn wire (and I got the other bells and whistles as a bonus).
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Herbie3Rivers
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001
Posts: 1271
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I wish there was a way to have these without having to switch to 12 volt. These would make a huge difference in my 59.
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Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
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1972 Super Beetle
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1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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VWKDF
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2011
Posts: 376
Location: NJ
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Chip
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| They've come a long way since the photos I posted of the 6v version on page 2 of this thread. |
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24119
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Herbie3Rivers wrote: |
| I wish there was a way to have these without having to switch to 12 volt. These would make a huge difference in my 59. |
Your '59 doesn't have "snowflakes." (Uless you got a new car I don't know about.)
Incidentally, my term for those taillights has always been "honeycomb" because the reflector closely resembles a honeycomb. A snowflake could be any shape. (I guess not everyone can coin a jargon word ...)
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audidood
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2006
Posts: 231
Location: nor*cal
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Chip B. wrote: |
| Its a new flasher, it replaces the old one. needs 12v, ground, and hooks to the switch/dash light. Easy. |
where's my Staples button, cuz that was EEEAASYY! What a difference that new flasher relay made over the slow, yellow 2-prong Niles unit i had previously.
Thanks!
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[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/audidood/IMG_4070.jpg?t=1365009618[/img]
2004.5 Audi A4
1956 VW Bug
a (not so) wise man once said, "chrome don't get you home." |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Last night I took my '57 out to dinner with my wife and coming home, turning into my driveway a guy in a truck came WAY close behind me as I signaled and slowed. So I took a look at my lights with the turn signal on. The turn signal is barely visible. I suspect that the ground is poor and one filament is finding a ground path back through the other filament. I'm an engineer by trade have been messing with circuits for 40+ years. I also restore the brown bakelite flashers used in the '55-'57 Beetles.
That being said, I thought last night that maybe LED conversions would not be a bad idea. I am a hardcore stock-nazi, but if nothing is permanently modified and I can just keep the stock lights in a box, I would do it.
So I read Chip's ad, and the pages in this thread, and I am still unclear if the light conversions will work with the stock flasher. The NiChrome wire stock flashers are very load dependent, and will flash at different rates depending on the bulb load on them. I suspect that with the LEDs be a much smaller load, that they may flash at a different rate.
So, Chip, et. al., do these work with the stock '55-'57 flashers? If so, is the flash rate the same (you might dummy load the circuit with a resistor to make it appear the same as an incandescent bulb, but probably not, that is not good design practice). I would shy away from making other wiring/flasher modifications... probably.
I see others have made them as well, but I want to support Chip as a VW business/entrepreneur myself, I understand what it take to bring a product to the hobby....
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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flyertim
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2009
Posts: 554
Location: medina, ohio
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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john,
i bought a set of 6-volt led's from chip several months ago. here's what he said to me in an email:
| chip wrote: |
Tim,
Thanks for your interest in my lights! I do recommend the 6v flasher for every 6v LED install. I've had a few guys that have had luck with their current stock style ones though. That said, I've never had anyone get them to flash correctly with an SWF. In fact, I bought one myself to try to get to work. After a few failed attempts I gutted it and installed one of my 6v LED ones(trimmed to fit) inside. Theoretically every terminal should work just like stock. I don't have an oval window to try it out in, but it bench tests just fine. Unfortunately I have over $75 in just parts invested into it. And no one in their right mind will fork out that kind of cash for a flasher.
That said, the flasher is optional for all packages, not actually included in any unless requested. They are pricey, and I want people to feel like they are open to explore their own options. This is just one that I have found that actually does the job, and they are available when I need them. |
(i hope chip doesn't mind me answering this question for him!)
i did buy a flasher with the DIY kit. nothing is hooked up, so i haven't tried to make anything work.
hope this helps!
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"Broadsword calling Dannyboy"
my '57 rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=369883 |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Cool, thanks. Makes sense. I actually have a bunch of old unrestorable bakelite SWFs and would have no problem modifying one to make a load-independant flasher.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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6Speed
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 340
Location: East Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
Last night I took my '57 out to dinner with my wife and coming home, turning into my driveway a guy in a truck came WAY close behind me as I signaled and slowed. So I took a look at my lights with the turn signal on. The turn signal is barely visible. I suspect that the ground is poor and one filament is finding a ground path back through the other filament. I'm an engineer by trade have been messing with circuits for 40+ years. I also restore the brown bakelite flashers used in the '55-'57 Beetles.
That being said, I thought last night that maybe LED conversions would not be a bad idea. I am a hardcore stock-nazi, but if nothing is permanently modified and I can just keep the stock lights in a box, I would do it.
So I read Chip's ad, and the pages in this thread, and I am still unclear if the light conversions will work with the stock flasher. The NiChrome wire stock flashers are very load dependent, and will flash at different rates depending on the bulb load on them. I suspect that with the LEDs be a much smaller load, that they may flash at a different rate.
So, Chip, et. al., do these work with the stock '55-'57 flashers? If so, is the flash rate the same (you might dummy load the circuit with a resistor to make it appear the same as an incandescent bulb, but probably not, that is not good design practice). I would shy away from making other wiring/flasher modifications... probably.
I see others have made them as well, but I want to support Chip as a VW business/entrepreneur myself, I understand what it take to bring a product to the hobby.... |
I wondered why my pass side blinker blinked slower and way dimmer, than my drivers side! I tried cleaning the connections but saw no difference. How would I go about finding the bad ground?
Coincidentally I ordered up a set of Chips LED tail lamps yesterday. 
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Blue Baron
VW Aficionado
Joined: June 16, 2006
Posts: 24119
Location: Southeast USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| Last night I took my '57 out to dinner with my wife and coming home, turning into my driveway a guy in a truck came WAY close behind me as I signaled and slowed. So I took a look at my lights with the turn signal on. The turn signal is barely visible. |
Question: Have you removed the dark red plastic light defusers that are under the glass lens? We made this simple mod on Tom's "Blauchen" '57, and the 6-volt brakes lights are 100% brighter.
As for the flashers, on the Bad-Mab kit the signals work properly with the stock flasher relay. One interesting thing I noticed is the LEDs light instantaneously. It's like a mechanical flash. It's not like a standard bulb where it takes a slight instant for them to build to full intensity.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.
Heinz Nordhoff |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Blue Baron wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Last night I took my '57 out to dinner with my wife and coming home, turning into my driveway a guy in a truck came WAY close behind me as I signaled and slowed. So I took a look at my lights with the turn signal on. The turn signal is barely visible. |
Question: Have you removed the dark red plastic light defusers that are under the glass lens? We made this simple mod on Tom's "Blauchen" '57, and the 6-volt brakes lights are 100% brighter.
As for the flashers, on the Bad-Mab kit the signals work properly with the stock flasher relay. One interesting thing I noticed is the LEDs light instantaneously. It's like a mechanical flash. It's not like a standard bulb where it takes a slight instant for them to build to full intensity. |
Yeah I removed the diffusers when I restored the car 14 years ago now. They are fairly bright, and a bit orange-ish, but you can't distinguish the flash of the second filament (ground issue I am sure).
Yes, the "slew rate" on LEDs is very short, you can see this on a lot of newer cars that have LED taillights and even LED front marker and turn signal lights. Since the diode does not have to heat up first to produce light like an incandescent, it looks more instant on and instant off.
And while we are being geeky, the current drawn by an incandescent bulb the split second it is turned on spikes, and then settles down as the filament heats up and glows (I am talking about less than a quarter of a second here). Cold filaments draw more current than hot, white hot ones. I mention this because the old SFW bakelite flashers rely on this "inrush current" activate a coil and pull in the second set of contacts that flash the speedo pod bulb. This is why in a poorly adjusted flasher the speedo bulb usually flashes the first 1-3 times, then stops because the filament is staying relatively hot as the bulb flashes and the inrush current spike is not as high. LEDs do not have any meaningful inrush current spike, so again, I doubt they would work with the SWF flasher.
</geek>
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Chip
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| The SWF flashers in stock form do not like LEDs. I tried to make them work, and so did one of my customers. It was a no go as far as we could tell. Load resistors would probably do the job, but just add bulk to the wiring in the car. I have modified an SWF to work. But it basically required gutting one, and putting my trimmed down flasher in it. It is 6v and 12v compatible now, so that is cool. But ends up being a very expensive product. I have over $75 invested in it, $45 SWF and my $30 6v LED flasher. Not to mention a few hours of my time. Its doable, just not very fun to do, nor worth it for the average enthusiast. But for someone who wants the correct look under the hood, AND the security that comes from being seen, it might all be worth while. |
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