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7 Steps to a happier back end - Vanagon sag
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floggingmolly
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My rubber pads were shot on the bottom of the rear springs. What I did was just cut the cutting board (ironic) using my top rubber pieces as a template (they were in great shape). I put the upper ones down below and used the cutting board replacements on the top because there is that steel apron up top. Seemed like the right thing to do. Anyway, I whittled a bit of a groove into each cutting board spacer for the spring to set in using a dremel. I think it worked. I'll have to check them in a week or so after driving to see if they have held up without a sturdy piece of rubber between the spring and the cutting board spacer. If not, I'll do round 2 with a rubber spacer in between the spring and spacer.
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MootPoint
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked this back in December (previous page) and didn't see a reply so I'll try again:

Question: I've measured my hub-to-arch height all the way around and not only is the L/R height substantially different in the rear, L/R is also slightly different in the front, and the front-to-back height is different as well on both sides; i.e. every measurement is slightly (or more than slightly) different.

Should everything be the same height all the way or just worry about the rear sag (the L/R difference in the front is minimal).

Thanks.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MootPoint wrote:
Should everything be the same height all the way or just worry about the rear sag (the L/R difference in the front is minimal).

Thanks.

My alignment guy says, (paraphrased)
"Load the van up as it is most commonly driven"

For me.. it helps to have baseline numbers.. So I measured mine empty as a starting point.

But real use has real wieght in it.. sooo...
i.e. 160-200lbs in the front driver's seats.., the appropriate weight of a passenger, if you commonly drive with one.
A 3/4 tank of gas... and if you are a Westy, a 3/4 tank of water, food in the fridge, etc.
And whatever you commonly carry in the rear. (I now have my spare back there and will be adding another 50-150lbs in the rear on a second swing away)

I did this and now, when empty, the rear sits about 3/8" higher than the front. And I am within 1/4" side to side..

1/4" is is surprisingly easy ot level out by simply packing for it.

Opinions will vary, however, I am sure.
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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MootPoint
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! Thanks! that helps a lot. Dealing with butt sag is one of my major goals for this spring (no pun intended).
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floggingmolly
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So after a week or so with the new spacers, it seems the ride is actually much better. I had spring on metal in the rear at the bottom of the spring and was really feeling the bumps. I moved the upper rubber pads to the bottom and put my new spacers at the top. So now the van is "perfectly" level and the ride noise and bump noise has dampened noticably. I also have new Yokohama 580 tires on so that may have helped, but I think no more metal on metal is the big difference. Easy breezy job and $7.99 for the cutting board for 2 spacers.
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Tmcd
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stopped at the local Sally Ann on my way home from work to look for cutting boards and voila...a perfect 3/4 inch thick grey heavy duty board just big enough for 3 spacers.
Got home, jacked the driver's side up and got to it. Needed my big impact wrench to get the shock bolt out. Love that tool Very Happy Spread the trailing arm further apart with a bottle jack to wriggle the spring out, cut the spacers at 6" (the center hole is about 1 3/4 diameter btw) and slipped a couple in there. Could NOT get the spring back on as I didn't have a spring compressor. So I had to go with one spacer for now just on the driver's side. Worked awesome!

Before: R/R=17" L/R=16 1/8" R/F=16" L/F=15 1/4"

After: R/R=17" L/R=17 1/8" R/F=16" L/F=16 1/8"

All measurements were taken with the van empty (daily driver and weekend/summer camping) with no passengers, 1/2 tank of gas and empty water tank. When I'm in the driver's seat the van is nice and level. I can't get over the ride now! It corners much better now. It feels like I'm leaning over towards the passenger seat though...gonna take a while to get the brain used to being level Laughing

I'm going to pick up a spring compressor and put in the 2nd spacer on the rear driver's side, then add one to the other side. For the front, I'm planning on getting a pair of chevy s10 springs and that should bring me up to 18 or just over all around hopefully. Then it's time to finally put on my 16" mercedes steelies once I paint them and get some nice A/T tires. Then I'll be laughing at any washboard or pothole that comes my way without having to slam on the brakes and take violent evasive action.
Any opinions of said plans out there? I'd like to hear 'em. Anyone have this (or similar) set up?

Thanks SO much guys for the time spent on these write-ups. Love this site Very Happy
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Timwhy
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your rubber pads are gone or close to being gone, you can make your own from rubber sheet.
I made this bunk step from a piece of rubber sheet that is used in a conveyor. I bought a
small piece from an industrial supply business. Depending upon the thickness needed, they
sell by the foot.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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MayorMcCheese
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JED THE SPREAD wrote:
Here is a video we did this year some might find useful,

http://campervanculture.com/2011/02/how-to-lift-the-rear-of-your-syncro-for-very-little-cash/

jed


Apparently it's possible to do it that way without a spring compressor on a syncro but not on a regular van. At least not in my experience.
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Team WorldTour
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't use a spring compressor on the back. I took off the shock and had a second person to push on the trailing arm with their foot.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Domo wrote:
I didn't use a spring compressor on the back. I took off the shock and had a second person to push on the trailing arm with their foot.

Yep.

And if the second person's help fails, unbolt inner CV bolts. Make sure your brake lines are not hanging up.. And then the rear spring, pretty much, falls out.
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-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
Domo wrote:
I didn't use a spring compressor on the back. I took off the shock and had a second person to push on the trailing arm with their foot.

Yep.

And if the second person's help fails, unbolt inner CV bolts. Make sure your brake lines are not hanging up.. And then the rear spring, pretty much, falls out.

i had to undo the inner CV's
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Kejidog
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did my drivers side. I will complete the passenger side tomorrow. I had a hell of a time reinserting the spring. I used a scissor jack and a prybar to get the distance. 3/4" lift on the spacers looks good to me it gives me a nice look and raises the rear nicely. Hope I didn't do damage to my axle. It was pretty tight! I will post pics to show tomorrow. I think I will remove my shock completely tomorrow to get some room to work.

I am adding this bit as an edit. I Did the other side the next day in about 15 minutes. It is amazing how quickly something goes when all the tools are already bought and found and kept together I never had to remove the shock.
Just jack it up drop the shock bolt. Pull the spring out spread it apart and pop it all back together

The look is great but it is a little light when not loaded. It tends to hop over parking lot speed bumps. But man does it ride nice fully loaded!

This was the best 12 bucks I have ever spent on the van.
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turbo2cv
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My few cents on this:

Using a bottle/scissor jack to make room for the spring is wrong. The jack is fighting the CVs that is fully extended and pulls on the tranny and engine mounts. 2 ton jack versus 2mm circlips and the most precisely machined parts on the car (the CV) is not fair. Do it right and either drop one end of the CV or use a spring compressor tool. I dropped the CV and the control arm dropped enough to insert the spring without any force. There was one guy who reported CV issues in this thread.

It seems not safe to insert any more than about 3/4 inch of spacers on the top mount and 1/4 inch on the lower mount. Keeping the spring further away from the base plate increases the lateral force it puts on the guide tube and may result in breaking the guide tube. Someone also reported this. The amount of lift MrPolak pictures seems definitely unsafe to me.

So if you're looking for more than one inch lift get new springs.
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WhiteH2O
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did this. I couldn't believe that, even for me, it only took a little over an hour to do both sides!

I had troubles finding a cutting board; it seems that everyone is going to thin cutting boards now. Found one eventually, though.

I did want to add one thing (that I'm not sure if it has been covered or not). On the driver side, I had troubles getting the spring off because it was getting hung up on the bump stop. I ended up cutting it so it was more like a "C" shape so I could slide it in without taking the spring off. I didn't cut it so that it would easily slide in (and out) but cut it so that I had to tap it with a hammer to go in. This way, I can be a little more confident that it won't try to slide out. Worked like a charm, although I will probably have to get creative if I ever need to take them out.
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August978
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Deformed springs while adding spacers Reply with quote

I added spacers to level out at 18" all around but when I was done the lift had an extra inch in it (19" in the rear) I am guessing I deformed the springs when I compressed them by jacking up the trailing arm and then restraining them with chain to keep it compressed. So now i dont need the spacers at all.
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way did you deform the springs. Have you taken the van
for a drive yet? It just needs to settle down. Plus 1" spacer
doesn't equal 1" lift. It will raise it more. Try a 1/2 spacer and see if it puts you
were you need to be. The smarter ones will tell you the math
behind this. I just know from experience.
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kuleinc
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone say roughly how much a half or one inch spacer nets you in actual height gained?
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One inch spacer will raise that corner approximately 1.5 inches
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuleinc wrote:
Can anyone say roughly how much a half or one inch spacer nets you in actual height gained?


In the front the ratio is 2:1 and in the rear its 1.4:1 ie 1/2" in the front nets you a 1" lift, 1/2" in the rear gets you .7".

Rear ratio courtesy Volks Cafe.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake,

that front ratio is interesting. On a syncro, the front ration is about 1.4:1.

alistair
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