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Brake brackets etc.
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popimor
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Brake brackets etc. Reply with quote

So, i have an 85 Westfalia 2wd that sat in dry storage for 9 years. It is in pretty good shape! The brakes all need to be redone though from sitting, so I thought I would just go straight to a full upgrade at all wheels.

I have read every page of brake upgrade on this forum at one point or another over the past couple of weeks, and am somewhat overwhelmed, and can't seem to remember who had drawing of what style bracket for the different caliper and rotor applications that have been used. There is great information, but it is hard to find everything in one place without wading through many other posts.

Here is what I need and propose.

To start with, I have a friend who works with a CNC machine who can machine brackets for me which is a plus.

I want something simple, so I want to go with a similar front setup as fastforward listed for the synchro, when they were still around, using Audi 5000/100/200 parts.
http://www.syncro.ca/tech/audibrakes.htm
I would really like to use the matching rear rotors and calipers from the Audi on the rear. Basically g60 calipers on front, and the matching set that goes on the rear.

Basically what I need are CAD or other drawings of the front and rear brackets for these applications.
Does anyone have these or know who does?


The other thing I am trying to settle is whether or not I need to get 86+ spindles for the front or not. Wellington, and possibly other users, have found a way to use the existing spindles on older Vanagons. Correct?

Since there are not many front and rear combo solution pages I will be posting a simple step by step process, with photos, when installing these brakes.

This way there is a simple total solution, in one place on a single post that can be followed from start to finish as long as a person has
- bracket design
- machined stock rotors as hubs
These are somewhat difficult, but not insurmountable. $30 to have someone turn the stock rotors into hubs with a brake lathe. ???? to have brackets made.

I will include part numbers for the audi calipers, rotors, and other parts like brake lines. This way a user can just print out the single post and have instructions on how to do the procedure, and easy access to part numbers when things wear out.

Please help me make this easier.
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Ford set-up would be the best, for all the same reasons that make the Bostig engine kit a no-brainer. Cheap and plentiful parts donors and cheap and readily available FLAPS supplied parts.
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am upgrading the brakes of my '84s as well and read the 18 page thread about the upgrade - starkist70 had a really simple off the shelf upgrade for the early vanagons using mb 300d rotors, bmw 733i 4 piston calipers, and volvo 240 brake line. All you have to do is cut down your old rotors and make a hub from each. Do a search of that thread looking for '300d' and check for yourself - I bought 2 pairs of reman calipers for only $100 - The rotors are just a little more.
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popimor
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

240Gordy wrote:
I think the Ford set-up would be the best, for all the same reasons that make the Bostig engine kit a no-brainer. Cheap and plentiful parts donors and cheap and readily available FLAPS supplied parts.


Are you talking about the solution loogy came up with for front and rear? This is a great solution, but more complicate and expensive than I want to do. I don't want to have rotors custom made...

Is there a ifferent ford solution I am unaware of? I have only seen the rear brake solution here which also needed machining of the rotors etc.

Front brakes
I wanted to find a way to stick with just making a bracket for the front and running the stock brake disk through a lathe to make it a hub only. This has been done in the front a few times. It looks like I will be using Mercedes ML320 front rotors for this, and g60 calipers. I just need a bracket design basically. I was hoping someone had one already so I don't have to reinvent the wheel, err brake that stops the wheel.

back brakes
I have read that the ML320 rotors from mercedes slide right over the rear hub. Is this true for the front ML320 rotors, the rear ml320 rotors, or both?
I would like to be able to use the rear ml320 rotors on the back of the van. I do not know what calipers would need to be used back there though. It would be ideal if the audi 5000/200/100 calipers were the right width.
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popimor
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeeZ12 wrote:
I am upgrading the brakes of my '84s as well and read the 18 page thread about the upgrade - starkist70 had a really simple off the shelf upgrade for the early vanagons using mb 300d rotors, bmw 733i 4 piston calipers, and volvo 240 brake line. All you have to do is cut down your old rotors and make a hub from each. Do a search of that thread looking for '300d' and check for yourself - I bought 2 pairs of reman calipers for only $100 - The rotors are just a little more.


This interest me, but is still a little smaller than I wanted for rotors up front. Have you gotten a result yet? Also, I could not find info on what year bmw 733i calipers he had used. What year did you get? Do they fit?

You said you got two pairs of calipers. Are you planning on doing something similar in the back?
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popimor
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I get this figured out, I will put a link at the beginning of this thread to the procedure I use.

Last edited by popimor on Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started this project myself - I purchased 2 pairs for the fronts of my 2 84s - I will use the Ford Taurus for the rear using brackets from a914622. The front calipers look like they come from 84 bmw 733i and have 4 pots - the rotors are vented 11" from 87 mb 300d - Small? - What's funny is the 84 comes with 11" rotors while the 86+ come with 10".
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whafalia
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeeZ12, do keep us updated on that front brake swap, looks like good bang for the buck for us with the older vans.
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cannedveggiessuck
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can bookmark threads you find useful or any for that matter.
There is a little bookmark this topic link at the bottom near left of each page.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the photo below, the caliper does not allow the shock bolt to come out.

During installation of your new rear discs,
be sure to orient your shock bolt with the nut on the outside.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally received my new rotors, calipers, and machined some spare rotors to make hubs. I just need new wheel bearings, seals, and make a new little brake line pigtail before I test them

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Beck Arnley rebuilt caliper for '84 bmw 733i


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


4 piston caliper - came 'loaded' with pads $25.79 ea from rockauto


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


new rotor for '87 MB 300D for $24.02 each eBay auction

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


side view of new vented rotor with hub I turned on my lathe - price = sweat and time


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


this is the old rotor ring cut off to make the hub 'Anyone for a game of quoits?'


I'll post more later when I finish up and test.
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw - It is possible that this also can be done on earlier vans from '73-'85 since they all use the same calipers.
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally finished one of my '84s and will start the other when I finish my Bostig Conversion. I was reminded that I hadn't finished the paperwork so here is the finale - Anyone wanting me to email the recipe to them just pm me with your email address.

* - vented rotors from a 1984 MB 300SD
* - 4 pot calipers with pads from a 1984 BMW 733i
* - 8" metric bubble flare brake line from Autozone PAE-308
* - M12-1.75X25mm button head bolt for the rotor to hub
* - 3mm wheel spacer so that stock 14" steel rims fit.

Made hubs from the Vanagon rotors and bolted on the MB rotors
Drilled the mounting holes on the calipers for 15mm bolts
Dust shields fit. Bent the new brake lines to approximately 2-90 degree angles to fit.

3mm spacer - the calipers just barely touch the inside of the 14" wheel so I had to add the spacer.

The VW rotors were cut off and the outside hub mounting surface was machined to the maximum thickness that gave a smooth mounting surface for the wheel. The hub was cut on the inside to fit the 80mm rotor so that the rotor registered center to the hub diameter and the bolt portion of the hub was dimension cut from the inside for a total thickness of 16mm. This gave proper clearance and allowed use of the dust shields. The MB 300SD rotor was mounted to its hub with 5 M12x1.75 button head bolts.

The caliper mounting holes were drilled to 19/32 and bolted them on in the original location.

Hook up was simple, just bend an 8" bubble flare piece of brake line. Basically 2-90 degree bends.

I really love these brakes - I can now have confidence in the braking performance

[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625857.jpg[/img]

Hub Top View

[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625858.jpg[/img]

Hub Side View

[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625856.jpg[/img]

Grinding Points if necessary

[imghttps://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/thumbnails/625855.jpg[/img]

Finished with 3mm spacer for 14" steel wheel clearance
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One day I may remember how to post pics
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levi
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you forgot to click on the pic itself, then highlight the url, copy, etc.
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright here goes, I think I have it now


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Hub Top View


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Hub Profile


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Grinding Points


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Finished with 3mm spacers
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Loogy!
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bumped & bookmarked
a neat set up that retains use of the 14" rims but upgrades to vented rotors for less brake fade..

is there a listing of brake upgrade options in the sticky above?
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hdenter
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree! There just isn't enough info on the hub mods that I can drop off my spare set of rotors to be cut down. I'm hoping someone else has done this and has documented the mods more completely.
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