UHMW Tape: Slider Door Sound Mod + others

[Gnarlodious]

Seems like a modern plastic roller turned on a lathe would do the job. That bearing doesn’t hold all that much weight. Maybe a plastic bearing already exists and could be lathe-turned to fit the track.

Or possibly replace the roller with a nylon slider and the UHMW tape underneath. This mod has been extremely successful:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=592039
Plastic on UHMW is a great combination, never any grease needed and no dirt to deal with. I’d like to see such a solution for the sliding door sold mass production.
_________________
Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[dhaavers]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

Rachel, yes a turned plastic roller to fit bearing would be the ticket. My question is how resilient should the plastic be? I like the idea of hard polyurethane but it is a bit of a challenge to turn on lathe, have to re grind tool bits etc. I haven't been successful so far in getting a nice finish, I need practice.

Dhaavers - the effects on sound was immediate. Re-applying every couple of years would not be too great a chore if it weren't for the tenacity of the remaining tape. You know that situation, where it sticks it really sticks.

Alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[Jake de Villiers]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

Jake,

Yeah I thought of that but I think the bearing ID is wrong. The bearing specs were published here somewhere, I snagged them to the HD.

I have some inline skate wheels on a string in the workshop and they were my immediate prey, but they have a webbed inner region that won't allow reboring for the correct bearing.

Machining a groove could be done crudely, but machining the bearing socket needs a bit more precision.

I might try delrin as I have some on hand. It machines nicely and might work out noise wise. I just have had no luck so far with polyU. I really should pay more attention to cutting edge geometry etc.

Cheers

Alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[T3 Pilot]

That is a good idea, I used skateboard wheels to replace the drum supports on a front load washer about 10 years ago and it is still going strong. That middle door track needs an upgrade......

Just thinking on this and maybe the answer is to go back in time and make the middle hinge slide like a T2 door on a machined block of UHMW or Delrin instead of trying to fit a bearing into a plastic grooved roller.

The plastic block would take the place of the grooved roller, and maybe it could ride inside the track that the roller used to ride on the edge of. I am not a plastics guy, but if the plastic was strong enough and the track could be made slick with more UHMW low friction tape, then maybe we could eliminate the bearing/grooved wheel entirely.....
_________________
1988 Vanagon

The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel......

[goffoz]

[Jake de Villiers]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

Goffoz - thanks for the tool tips. I will try that out.

Jake - one thing about delrin is that it supposedly absorbs water. Not sure it that is any concern in this application. It's not as self lubricating as polyE also.UHMW polyE turns and machines nicely for me. Only drawback is that the shavings tend to static cling to everything.

Alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[Gnarlodious]

[Gnarlodious]

[Jake de Villiers]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

so i had time to make a quick and dirty delrin roller for the covered slider track. Just a proof of concept thing. i didn't feel like grinding a tool to make the internal circlip groove, i used a single point internal threading tool so consequently the groove is tapered and not to be trusted.

so with the excuses out of the way, the roller works fine. I think it is quieter than the steel roller but I can't really quantify. One thing though, now it sure seems that most of the door noise is coming from the lower track roller. When i did the tape mod I did both the lower track and the covered slider areas at the same time. I couldn't say which had the bigger effect.

Going to put the steel roller back on and think about making a final version of the derlin roller.

Oh, btw, the bearing in the roller is a 607RS.
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servlet/the-1030/607-Radial-Ball-Bearing/Detail


This has been noted in other threads, one particular thread, http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...or+bearing, makes amusing and informative reading.

sorry about the out of focus first pic

alistair

Ps just finished swapping the stock roller back in and I can say for sure that the delrin version is quieter than the steel one. Is it enough of a difference to make me want to make a final version? I think so, but I'm not in a rush.
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[kamzcab86]

[Jake de Villiers]

[fyrgrrl]

So I got in to the bottom track with degreaser and brushes and cleaned out the dirt, grease, a few stones and an odd bolt with a nut.

I see the worn track and figure that's where the tape goes. But my question is and I don't think I saw it addressed anywhere....the worn track is not a straight track. It's straight for awhile and then curves into the van body.

How did you stick the UMHW tape at the curve?
_________________
1987 Vanagon Westfalia (manual) - "Van Hildegaard"
1987 Vanagon Westfalia (auto)
1985 Vanagon GL 7-passenger van (auto) - "Blau Frau"
1985 Vanagon GL 7-passenger van (manual) - "Braunkuh"
1998 Subaru Legacy Outback (auto)
2003 Subaru Legacy L wagon (auto)

[Gnarlodious]

fyrgrrl
Not recommended. Immediate results are great but not durable. It seems the tape can’t stand up to the extreme pressure immediately under the roller. And then the damaged tape is very hard to get off.

Ragnar:
I for one will be ready to go for plastic rollers anywhere on the door. I expect any soft plastic will be quieter but also have some rolling resistance. That is fine with me, since the door often moves when parked even on a slight incline. Keep on experimenting.

I’ve been thinking about the plastic tape under the sliding windows. Anyone done that?
_________________
Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[Jake de Villiers]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

The delrin is hard enough so that the door does move by itself on the very slight incline of my driveway. I think delrin is a fair choice for the roller, hard enough to move on the track easily, but not as hard as steel so the noise is reduced a bit.

I don't have any hard polyU to try, but I may try the local plastic shop to see if by any chance they have some hard polyU rod.

I have a bit of Teflon rod, not sure if it would be a good choice but why not try it?

Would be handy to have a turret lathe for is kind of fab.

Alistair

[Gnarlodious]