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sgellis
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 2014
Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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 Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| Does the stub axle wiggle? Either the inner lower or one of the upper bearings. Totally fixable but deeper than you were hoping. |
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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Thanks sgellis and Barry. The stub axle does wiggle....Is this one of the bearings that may be suspect? (red line)
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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sgellis
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 2014
Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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That’s pretty personal.
Those aren’t RGB Ball bearings. Maybe a bearing in the trans but that is a strange place for them to end up.
Don’t stress too much. Maybe open the RGBs to inspect
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| totemwesty wrote: |
| The stub axle does wiggle... |
How much up and down and in and out?
| totemwesty wrote: |
| Is this one of the bearings that may be suspect? (red line) |
The red line is pointing at a spacer. My first guess is lower inner bearing then second guess is upper outer but I need to wait till you answer the first question. How growl-ey gritty do the RGB gears feel rotating them by hand?
This is from a worn trashed inner lower ball.
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| totemwesty wrote: |
| The stub axle does wiggle... |
How much up and down and in and out?
This is from a worn trashed inner lower ball.
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There is no wiggle in or out. The up and down wiggle in to small to measure or see...can barely feel it wiggle. I rotated the stub axle by hand and there is no grinding I can hear and it feels smooth to me, though I've never done that before so I don't know how it should feel. The ball bearings are the size you pictured and a few are beat up like in your pic.
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| Take the fill plug out and watch inside there if the gear teeth rise up toward you at all when you rock rotate the stub axle quickly. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| totemwesty wrote: |
| The stub axle does wiggle... |
See the bearing to the right of your red line? There is an outer race of that bearing that is fairly loose in you RGB outer half right now. Try to pull it out with pliers gently going round and pulling. If the rollers of the bearing fall out don't worry. Then wiggle the stub axle and report back please. |
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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Hi Barry. Thank you for your help and advise. I apologize as I have mis-informed you. I found one of the ball bearing in good shape and upon referencing next to a penny, I mis-stated they were the same size as the referance photo you provided. I took a reference photo and have placed it here for comparison. I took out the fill plug and watched the gear as I rock rotated as you advised. The gear has no rise when I do this, it appears concentric and evenly rotates. In addition I tried to remove the bearing race as you stated but it is considerably secure and I felt I may do some damage trying to grip it and remove it.
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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sgellis
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 2014
Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| totemwesty wrote: |
| I took a reference photo and have placed it here for comparison. |
Easily could be from the upper outer and worn down, fell out, some getting thrashed. The bus will still function with the upper outer failed. I've even taken that one out on the side of the road/campground repair and driven many thousands of miles.
| totemwesty wrote: |
| In addition I tried to remove the bearing race as you stated but it is considerably secure and I felt I may do some damage trying to grip it and remove it. |
Can you move the stub axel axially?
I doubt you could damage very much any part of the outer race protruding that matters. Without removing that you won't be able to fully prove the soundness of the lower inner but if there isn't any axial play that is a good sign.
The whole reason to prove all this out is I'm suggesting if stuff is resonably intact you could go ahead and just use it till it fails. |
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| sgellis wrote: |
Maybe they were in someone's secondhand gear oil that was used to top up the reductions. Was not uncommon to use second hand gear oil or even engine oil to cheaply keep a clunker on the road for a bit longer. I never used the last bit in the bottom of the jug though 
Hopefully its nothing. |
Ah that is interesting!
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| totemwesty wrote: |
| I took a reference photo and have placed it here for comparison. |
Easily could be from the upper outer and worn down, fell out, some getting thrashed. The bus will still function with the upper outer failed. I've even taken that one out on the side of the road/campground repair and driven many thousands of miles.
| totemwesty wrote: |
| In addition I tried to remove the bearing race as you stated but it is considerably secure and I felt I may do some damage trying to grip it and remove it. |
Can you move the stub axel axially?
I doubt you could damage very much any part of the outer race protruding that matters. Without removing that you won't be able to fully prove the soundness of the lower inner but if there isn't any axial play that is a good sign.
The whole reason to prove all this out is I'm suggesting if stuff is resonably intact you could go ahead and just use it till it fails. |
There very small axial play. Maybe a 1/16? or less...I wouldnt have noticed it but then compared it to the other RGB that has no play at all. Thanks for your inputs and responses. I will use it and see how it goes, I learned more about RGBs and that is always a good thing.
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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Success! I completed a full brake rebuild on the bus. The rear axle nuts were initially enough of a hurdle I was going to call it and just bring it to a shop. I ordered the axle nut removal tool and that made the difference. I found it key to have the hammering to assist the torque upon removal. I was then able to remove the rear drums. Rust cascaded out!
The brakes looked like something brought up from the bottom of the sea. I soaked the bolts etc. in PB blaster and hoped for the best. All of the components were removed without much fuss.
After I removed the front and rear brakes, backing plates, hard / soft lines etc. I started to clean things up. The front beam had a shell of grease and grime 1/2 in thick. After chiseling and wire brushing it off all of the grease zirks were revealed. I removed and cleaned them and then reinstalled and greased the beam/spindles. The rears featured the same clean up around the RGBs etc. I then ordered all the brake parts needed. They were sold out of star adjusters but the originals were in good shape so I re-used them. The original cylinders were frozen, I will keep the original cylinders in storage. The front assemblies were pretty straight forward, a bit tricky to get the shoes sprung into the cylinders. The rears have a series of gaskets, cable, hand brake bracket, etc. that tested my nerves but I got them installed.
Once everything was set my friend stopped by to bleed the brakes. The rears bled proper and we moved to the front. Then frustration set in as they would not bleed solid. We kept losing prime and getting huge air sputters. Finally I realized the rear reservoir in the master will not top off until the front reservoir is full and spills over to the rear one. We reset and were successful.
I learned my entire brake system from pedal pad to drum pad. In addition to saving $1000.00 or more in labor fee at a shop. Overall a worthy effort and another tab in the book of bus ownership.
_________________
"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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Hi all. Pulled the bumpers off. They are in decent shape. The front over-riders are dinged up and the blade was twisted a bit. The bow is in good shape. The rear over-riders are missing, there was a hitch gobbed on with 1/4" L beam that was prob 15 lbs. The rear blade was straight with a few lip dings. The brackets are solid and all of the bolts etc. are present. Cut the hitch off the rear blade. Brought the components in to get blasted.
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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Hi all...
I'm giving the RGB repair a shot.
I was able to pull the cover w no problem. With the cover and the stub axle race off there is considerable play. So far no damage is evident. The bearings in sight seam okay, though as seen in my previous post this was the RGB with the tiny ball bearings that were in the fluid when drained.
So...
What is needed to remove the top outer bearing?...I have the cir-clip off.
Will the stub axle come out with the inner bearing? Should I use the drum and castle nut on to "tap" out the stub axle?
Are these inner bearings? Am I seeing tiny ball bearings in them that likely failed and were found in the fluid of my RGB?
Hoping for some advise to see if I can make the repairs needed...thanks
_________________
"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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zozo
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Joined: October 15, 2005
Posts: 5217
Location: South of Ol' San Antonio
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| totemwesty wrote: |
| With the cover and the stub axle race off there is considerable play. |
That is not abnormal but what is considerable? At the end of the stub axle how far does it move? Does it move axially?
| totemwesty wrote: |
| What is needed to remove the top outer bearing?...I have the cir-clip off. |
Usually you can pry it off with two screw drivers. Don't let the upper axle pull outward. Do everything you can to keep it inward at all times.
| totemwesty wrote: |
| Are these inner bearings? Am I seeing tiny ball bearings in them that likely failed and were found in the fluid of my RGB? |
I doubt pieces as big as the ones you showed got past the top gear and down but stranger things have happened. |
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totemwesty
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Bend, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cloud 9... '67 SO42 |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| totemwesty wrote: |
| With the cover and the stub axle race off there is considerable play. |
That is not abnormal but what is considerable? At the end of the stub axle how far does it move? Does it move axially?
| totemwesty wrote: |
| What is needed to remove the top outer bearing?...I have the cir-clip off. |
Usually you can pry it off with two screw drivers. Don't let the upper axle pull outward. Do everything you can to keep it inward at all times.
| totemwesty wrote: |
| Are these inner bearings? Am I seeing tiny ball bearings in them that likely failed and were found in the fluid of my RGB? |
I doubt pieces as big as the ones you showed got past the top gear and down but stranger things have happened. |
It moves up down side to side about 1/8". It does not move axially aside from the travel between the gear teeth which is pretty minute. The upper components seem solid. If anything I suspect the lower inner? I followed the link that ZOZO posted above and unfortunately I didn't realize that my trans RGBs have the inner stub axle nut that is likely beyond me to get at / remove etc. The procedure shown is w/ trans removed. I watched a procedure on a older (small nut?) trans that has a stub axle removal with out any thing securing it from the back. It was serviced without trans removal necessary. Is it possible to remove a stub axle like mine without trans removal? Also to be honest... I have not driven a split bus before. I have taken mine around the block but am on egg shells thinking the RGB is bad. Maybe its normal and I am just overly cautious....maybe put on a few highway miles and see how that goes?
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"I set sail for the new world, then I burned down the mast.... It wasn't the first time, and I know it wont be the last..." Bloodkin
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