CV bolt stripped to hell

[xoo00oox]

...The quality of the wrench makes a huge difference. With allen wrenches and sockets, you should spend the money to buy the best and replace them as soon as they start to show wear. A good allen wrench will not bend like spaghetti noodles.

[Zero419]

[Alaric.H]

[dlb]

[?Waldo?]

As I stated previously, likely VW didn't design it "better" because they work perfectly well unless an improper or unskilled approach is used during assembly/dis-assembly.

[dlb]

that's a 'good enough' approach that i disagree with. you can make almost anything work if you take great care with it but if something turns out to be a common problem, like allen head bolts on CV joints, than it would be logical to come up with an alternate approach that is less problem prone. maybe that means that a lot of people are using an 'improper or unskilled approach' but that part of the customer base should be considered and accounted for.

[?Waldo?]

The unskilled customer base IS accounted for. Cars are very user-friendly to operate. IMO, the unskilled customer base shouldn't be touching the mechanical components or should expect some growing pains as they climb the learning curve as they acquire skills.

As I said before, I have removed many axles and have not stripped out any bolts in about 20 years. I stripped some *once* back in '91 and very quickly learned how to easily avoid it. In general, mechanical work is skilled labor and car manufacturers are not designing cars to be worked on by unskilled individuals and I think very few individuals would be willing to pay the extra money for them to design them in that manner. IMO it is simply justice that a hack's approach to life in general causes pain. Avoiding stripping CV bolts is easy, takes very little additional time and even if one were to strip one, removing it with the proper tools is not difficult or particularly time consuming. Your soapbox would be better suited to design flaws that skill cannot easily avoid. There are plenty of those on the vanagon. The CV flange/bolt design is just not one of them.

[dlb]

sorry, i guess i prefer cars that are 'hack friendly' to work on, bud.

[?Waldo?]

Removing CV bolts properly is even easier and more rewarding than using capital letters. Have fun hacking.

[IdahoDoug]

I think in my case, my dislike of allen bolts stems from improper tools and a user problem (me) - heh. I only have a set of allen wrenches - the 90 degree bent piece of tool steel. Because of the nature of these little wrenches, when you apply torque there is not enough tool to grab onto it with the other hand and apply offsetting force to ensure the tool stays correctly at right angles to the fastener. As a result, the tool is not properly being supported in the bolt and you begin to distort it. Once that is done instantly the bolt and tool do not fit each other and the cussing begins.

Writing this and thinking about it has reminded me that I should purchase a set of allen sockets so that I can use my other hand to support the tool and prevent this distorting with the little wrenches. I wonder if this is what happens to others as well. My allen wrenches are quality craftsman tools but when I've needed to use a pipe pursuader they have been bending during the Syncro project. Again demonstrating I don't have the right tool for the job. Uh, wait - didn't mean exactly that.....

DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[?Waldo?]

You're on the right track, Doug. Using the actual L-shaped allen wrenches on those bolts is just asking for unnecessary frustration. A set of metric allen sockets is a 'must have' for working on these vehicles. Not to dissuade you from that essential tool purchase, but as I mentioned previously, the bolts that should be used in that application are high-quality triple-square bolts and not the allens. The proper triple-square bolts greatly increase the bolts' ability to withstand the proper torque. A decent quality triple-square socket should be used with those bolts and *not* a Torx which only has the 6-pts. I would also mention that I have seen poor quality triple-square bolts included in poor quality cv boot kits and those also will not fare well with the required torque. Using the proper tools and proper parts in this application pays significant dividends.

[dlb]

got it--'hacked' ( ) the head off the stubborn bolt with a grinder and was able to slide the inboard end of the CV over the remaining bolt shaft. the remaining shaft then came out really easily with vice grips. this was after trying vice grips on the head of the bolt, tapping it out with a cold chisel, and tapping a slightly larger (1/4") allen head socket in. would loved to have had an air chisel but that's alright.

[?Waldo?]

You didn't use the 12-pt socket hammered over the head? Quicker, easier and more effective than vice-grips even.

[JWPATE]

An M12 socket hammered over the bolt head has worked every time for me.

[dlb]

no, i only have the standard 6-pt sockets. i'm definitely going to track down a set of 'bolt-outs' like the ones mentioned earlier in this thread though, they look pretty rad.

[Randy in Maine]

Lets hope that bolt you put in there is really strong or you will be doing it again real soon. I think the CV bolts I use are grade 12.9 or something.

I like the triple square bolts as they are less likely to strip out (after cleaning the bolts heads out with Gum Out and using a good triple square bit to get good "purchase" on them).

Torque correctly to the spec and re-torque after 100 miles please.

[dlb]

i haven't installed the new CV yet but will be using the triple square bolts, torquing to 33 ft-lbs, and re-checking for sure. i'm clearly not a huge fan of this job so i'll do whatever i can to make it easier in the future! thanks for the tips.

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, I do need a set of them. I've already found several allen bolt applications on the Syncro that were frustrating. The engine water pipe on the left side from the thermo attaches above the oil cooler with allen bolts. The upper ball joints I changed were wrench bending allen bolts, etc.

Thanks.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[JWPATE]

Just one word of caution, to those rushing out for a set of "bolt out" sockets!

Oh yes, the "bolt out" set offered from Sears will certainly grip a ruined bolt head and "get it out". At least in the demonstrations.

The restriction of this tool set, is the space required. I have a set of them, sure, but after five years or so I have never found a situation where they have solved anything.

In this particular thread, if you have a stripped out C/V bolt, then hammer on a 12 point M12 socket and take the damn thing out. No problem.

In fact, I once put one back using this technique and torqued it down to spec., so I could use the Vanagon while waiting for new bolts to arrive. It has never failed to work for me.

[dlb]

jwpate, when you say M12 is that another way of saying 12 mm? i'm unsure so i thought i'd check.