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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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 Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: Fuel Pump Running Without Ignition Switched on‏ |
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After rescuing the Squareback from the mechanic, the battery was dead. After three days would not take a charge. Got a chance today to take the battery to Kragen, and it was truly dead. Put it in the Squareback, and soon as I put on the ground cable, the pump turned on. The key was in my pocket, so checked all the wiring and it was fine. The fuel pump relay was not previously working, so this is a bit odd. There was no relay clicks that I could hear, but do not count on it. What is going on?
Could a running pump kill a battery? Since the change occurred since being in the shop, wondering if when they messed with the F.I., they messed up something. Then, due to the noise, did not hear it, and drained the battery.
Since it seems I do not get to drive her much, got a nifty solar powered trickle charger. Instead of the kind that have to go into a lighter, this clips onto the battery posts. It provides a few milliamps at 15 volts when low, and stops charging when full. The nice coincidence is the thickness fits nicely between the dash pad and the window rubber, so it will not fall off the dash. Now can leave it, and not have to worry about it, plus keep the battery in better health.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
Last edited by Adriel Rowley on Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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rosevillain
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| The fuel pump relay may have a normally closed pole. If the fuel pump is connected to the normally closed, and not the normally open, then it would have power whenever the battery is connected and charged. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rosevillain wrote: |
| The fuel pump relay may have a normally closed pole. If the fuel pump is connected to the normally closed, and not the normally open, then it would have power whenever the battery is connected and charged. |
Thank you, that is what I was thinking after I checked all the wiring and it was fine; nothing hot wired. Well worth staying up way late.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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The original relay did not have a NC contact.
It could be that the relay has a stuck contact.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
The original relay did not have a NC contact.
It could be that the relay has a stuck contact. |
I got out the multimeter, and found out 87 has two lugs with continuity between, so when both power wires were on them, the pump was powered directly from the fuse box. Now with that taken care of, the pump does not run.
First, I checked to see if both relays are coming on. Only the power relay is coming on. I tested all the wires, and the only place I am not getting 12.4 volts to is the fuel pump wire (the relay is getting power, and feeding power to the rear). Tried two relays, and no difference. Now what?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
The original relay did not have a NC contact.
It could be that the relay has a stuck contact. |
I got out the multimeter, and found out 87 has two lugs with continuity between, so when both power wires were on them, the pump was powered directly from the fuse box. Now with that taken care of, the pump does not run.
First, I checked to see if both relays are coming on. Only the power relay is coming on. I tested all the wires, and the only place I am not getting 12.4 volts to is the fuel pump wire (the relay is getting power, and feeding power to the rear). Tried two relays, and no difference. Now what? |
How are you checking for power to the pump? through the wire at the pump end or on the terminal post itself? I think you need to test that post with the wire to the fuel pump in the engine compartment GROUNDED or else you wont see any voltage coming from that post, if it's working right.
the other option is to do what I've been telling you for months... get a NEW relay!!
Russ will chime in with the differences between the new relays available and the old ones, which I've found from personal experience don't matter. it works. hasn't failed me yet. Hasn't failed anyone else who's gotten the new ones I did either.
Your options are to source an old used one (Russ may have some) or get a new one. You know what my vote is and has been for several months.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
The original relay did not have a NC contact.
It could be that the relay has a stuck contact. |
I got out the multimeter, and found out 87 has two lugs with continuity between, so when both power wires were on them, the pump was powered directly from the fuse box. Now with that taken care of, the pump does not run.
First, I checked to see if both relays are coming on. Only the power relay is coming on. I tested all the wires, and the only place I am not getting 12.4 volts to is the fuel pump wire (the relay is getting power, and feeding power to the rear). Tried two relays, and no difference. Now what? |
How are you checking for power to the pump? through the wire at the pump end or on the terminal post itself? I think you need to test that post with the wire to the fuel pump in the engine compartment GROUNDED or else you wont see any voltage coming from that post, if it's working right.
the other option is to do what I've been telling you for months... get a NEW relay!!
Russ will chime in with the differences between the new relays available and the old ones, which I've found from personal experience don't matter. it works. hasn't failed me yet. Hasn't failed anyone else who's gotten the new ones I did either.
Your options are to source an old used one (Russ may have some) or get a new one. You know what my vote is and has been for several months. |
Ah you have made my day Joe! Sitting here watching you, and no post.  
Fuel pump wire grounded does nothing. Forgot to state.
Voltage was measured at relay end, so as I would have a good ground and physical connection.
 I will try a generic, but not sure how to hook it up. First, I need some calories.
Oh, and it always better to think that something is alright, than swap out parts randomly.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I have a bunch of good used relays.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
The Bosch relay I have is the standard replacement. 85 and 86 are turned 90 degrees, so I cannot install the wires.  Now what? |
those are the ones that have the plastic plug between them right? I simply removed the plastic.
and you're not randomly replacing parts... you've known for months this relay was sketchy. When have you ever seen me throw parts at a problem?
I think you're missing my point about the ground wire -- if the wire isn't grounded when you test the prong on the relay, of COURSE you're not going to have any voltage. the ECU hasn't told it to come on yet! You're not actively cranking the engine when you're testing the relay, nor are you watching/testing it fast enough to catch the split second that it comes on to prime the fuel rails when you turn the key the first time. This is my point. If grounding the wire does nothing, this tells you the relay(s) or wiring or pump is bad. You need to verify if the pump is getting power but testing it that way makes no sense -- without the wire in the engine compartment being grounded I don't think that post will have any juice without the engine running or cranking. The ecu controlls that on/off internally and uses input from the trigger contacts and juice from the starter -- neither of which are engaging when you have the key on but not cranking.
You need to ground that wire, and LEAVE it grounded, put the key to the first position, and THEN test that post for voltage.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| The Bosch relay I have is the standard replacement. 85 and 86 are turned 90 degrees, so I cannot install the wires. Now what? |
those are the ones that have the plastic plug between them right? I simply removed the plastic.
and you're not randomly replacing parts... you've known for months this relay was sketchy. When have you ever seen me throw parts at a problem?
I think you're missing my point about the ground wire -- if the wire isn't grounded when you test the prong on the relay, of COURSE you're not going to have any voltage. the ECU hasn't told it to come on yet! You're not actively cranking the engine when you're testing the relay, nor are you watching/testing it fast enough to catch the split second that it comes on to prime the fuel rails when you turn the key the first time. This is my point. If grounding the wire does nothing, this tells you the relay(s) or wiring or pump is bad. You need to verify if the pump is getting power but testing it that way makes no sense -- without the wire in the engine compartment being grounded I don't think that post will have any juice without the engine running or cranking. The ecu controlls that on/off internally and uses input from the trigger contacts and juice from the starter -- neither of which are engaging when you have the key on but not cranking.
You need to ground that wire, and LEAVE it grounded, put the key to the first position, and THEN test that post for voltage. |
Fine, will remove the plastic. Was hoping for a plug and play relay, but got to do what I got to to.
Dude, get them panties out of a wad! I was saying it was best of me to test the relay, rather than to put in a new one. I did not know it was a problem, as it worked for a while.
There is a wire in the engine compartment. Trust me, as I have done this many times. If you have the ignition on, and ground this wire, the pump should run. If not, there is a problem. Since I had a problem, I came back and asked for help.
Going out to try the relay.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| The Bosch relay I have is the standard replacement. 85 and 86 are turned 90 degrees, so I cannot install the wires. Now what? |
those are the ones that have the plastic plug between them right? I simply removed the plastic.
and you're not randomly replacing parts... you've known for months this relay was sketchy. When have you ever seen me throw parts at a problem?
I think you're missing my point about the ground wire -- if the wire isn't grounded when you test the prong on the relay, of COURSE you're not going to have any voltage. the ECU hasn't told it to come on yet! You're not actively cranking the engine when you're testing the relay, nor are you watching/testing it fast enough to catch the split second that it comes on to prime the fuel rails when you turn the key the first time. This is my point. If grounding the wire does nothing, this tells you the relay(s) or wiring or pump is bad. You need to verify if the pump is getting power but testing it that way makes no sense -- without the wire in the engine compartment being grounded I don't think that post will have any juice without the engine running or cranking. The ecu controlls that on/off internally and uses input from the trigger contacts and juice from the starter -- neither of which are engaging when you have the key on but not cranking.
You need to ground that wire, and LEAVE it grounded, put the key to the first position, and THEN test that post for voltage. |
Fine, will remove the plastic. Was hoping for a plug and play relay, but got to do what I got to to.
Dude, get them panties out of a wad! I was saying it was best of me to test the relay, rather than to put in a new one. I did not know it was a problem, as it worked for a while.
There is a wire in the engine compartment. Trust me, as I have done this many times. If you have the ignition on, and ground this wire, the pump should run. If not, there is a problem. Since I had a problem, I came back and asked for help.
Going out to try the relay. |
You can remove that plastic without ruining it, so you can put it back if you find a nos relay or a known good used one. Just remove it by gently bending the metal tabs down so the end will slide out of the housing. to put them back just bend the tabs back up so they'll lock.
I don't know what you mean in the last paragraph. Is there a wire directly grounding that wire in the engine compartment or isn't there? I never claimed that if you turn the ignition on and ground the wire that the pump should run isn't true. Nowhere did I say or imply that. In fact that is what TELLS you the problem is in one half of the harness or the other. What I'm saying is, your test on that prong going to the pump tells you nothing. In fact, you SHOULDN'T have had voltage there if the relay IS working right. You see? The ECU grounds that circuit and the relay trips and provides power to the pump. Unless the motor is turning over, or running, the ECU isn't receiving the signals to ground the circuit and allow the pump to run. The exception is the split second when you first turn the key. Now do you see why I'm telling you to ground that wire? It's tricking the circuit into acting like it would if the engine is running. NOW your test should reveal 11 or 12 volts going to the pump, IF it is working right. If it's not working right, then the contact is sticking and you need a new one. A simple test that may or may not work is tapping the relay with the butt of a screwdriver. that may shake it loose.
I don't tell you these things because I think you're dumb or incompetent, I tell you because I know how much it sucks to sit there and do tests that tell you nothing. I learned all of this the hard way, and I don't see why you have to. I'm just trying to help.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Now that I have information and calories, here is what I found.
After I posted, I thought to take the cover of one of the relays. Everything looked fine. Got a reply to this thread, and had an idea. Took it out to the Squareback, and plugged it in. Sure enough, the contact is not closing. I pressed it down, and the pump came on, and primed the system.
Next, got the plasic terminal off, and installed the new relay. No change, fuel pump still does not come on.
So, I have everything working, except the pump turning on when the key is turned over to ignition power. I am beginning to suspect the computer, as everything else has checked out. I do have a spare.
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| The Bosch relay I have is the standard replacement. 85 and 86 are turned 90 degrees, so I cannot install the wires. Now what? |
those are the ones that have the plastic plug between them right? I simply removed the plastic.
and you're not randomly replacing parts... you've known for months this relay was sketchy. When have you ever seen me throw parts at a problem?
I think you're missing my point about the ground wire -- if the wire isn't grounded when you test the prong on the relay, of COURSE you're not going to have any voltage. the ECU hasn't told it to come on yet! You're not actively cranking the engine when you're testing the relay, nor are you watching/testing it fast enough to catch the split second that it comes on to prime the fuel rails when you turn the key the first time. This is my point. If grounding the wire does nothing, this tells you the relay(s) or wiring or pump is bad. You need to verify if the pump is getting power but testing it that way makes no sense -- without the wire in the engine compartment being grounded I don't think that post will have any juice without the engine running or cranking. The ecu controlls that on/off internally and uses input from the trigger contacts and juice from the starter -- neither of which are engaging when you have the key on but not cranking.
You need to ground that wire, and LEAVE it grounded, put the key to the first position, and THEN test that post for voltage. |
Fine, will remove the plastic. Was hoping for a plug and play relay, but got to do what I got to to.
Dude, get them panties out of a wad! I was saying it was best of me to test the relay, rather than to put in a new one. I did not know it was a problem, as it worked for a while.
There is a wire in the engine compartment. Trust me, as I have done this many times. If you have the ignition on, and ground this wire, the pump should run. If not, there is a problem. Since I had a problem, I came back and asked for help.
Going out to try the relay. |
You can remove that plastic without ruining it, so you can put it back if you find a nos relay or a known good used one. Just remove it by gently bending the metal tabs down so the end will slide out of the housing. to put them back just bend the tabs back up so they'll lock.
I don't know what you mean in the last paragraph. Is there a wire directly grounding that wire in the engine compartment or isn't there? I never claimed that if you turn the ignition on and ground the wire that the pump should run isn't true. Nowhere did I say or imply that. In fact that is what TELLS you the problem is in one half of the harness or the other. What I'm saying is, your test on that prong going to the pump tells you nothing. In fact, you SHOULDN'T have had voltage there if the relay IS working right. You see? The ECU grounds that circuit and the relay trips and provides power to the pump. Unless the motor is turning over, or running, the ECU isn't receiving the signals to ground the circuit and allow the pump to run. The exception is the split second when you first turn the key. Now do you see why I'm telling you to ground that wire? It's tricking the circuit into acting like it would if the engine is running. NOW your test should reveal 11 or 12 volts going to the pump, IF it is working right. If it's not working right, then the contact is sticking and you need a new one. A simple test that may or may not work is tapping the relay with the butt of a screwdriver. that may shake it loose.
I don't tell you these things because I think you're dumb or incompetent, I tell you because I know how much it sucks to sit there and do tests that tell you nothing. I learned all of this the hard way, and I don't see why you have to. I'm just trying to help. |
Thank you Joe, I have done them before, but not this small. Took a half hour to find the right screwdriver and get the tabs down; about bent the heck out of the spade.
I was trying to be clear. I thought it was obvious that I agreed the test was partly fruitless. I thought it might have its faults, but might give information; better to be safe then sorry!
Thank you for looking after me. I feel so alone trying to solve some of her issues. She can be a bit testy about getting something fixed.
Plus, when you write, to me it seems confronting or something like that. Maybe it is just your passion! 
I am going to try and find proof that the internal grounding is kaput in the manual. I have that in the back of my head...
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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if your internal ground is actually bad, LMK. I have a stack of known good ECU's for your system.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| JSMskater wrote: |
| if your internal ground is actually bad, LMK. I have a stack of known good ECU's for your system. |
Apparently Russ has taken down the F.I. manual. I looked though all his albums, and man, he has a lot on that site! I learned more about Russ in a hour than the time I have known him!
As I was going though the site, I am now positive the pump is turned on by the E.C.U.. I have Kay's C, and I will try that.
Worst comes to worse, I will wait until you are back in San Diego, and you can loan me your tester or a few E.C.U.s.
Edit: Found this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...ump+ground
And, here is the manual, although only has the results from a tester: http://classicvw.org/gallery2/v/Fuel-Injection-Manual/
Then this:
| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
| When you turn the key on, you should hear 2 clicks, about 2 seconds apart. The first is the power relay for the fuel injection, and the second is the pump shutting back off. If you do not hear this, then you need to find why the relays are not coming in. It could be that the power relay under the rear seat has lost its ground, or the power wire from the battery is corroded. The Computer for the fuel injection controls the pump, so the computer has to get power before the pump can run. |
and
| KTPhil wrote: |
Normally, that vindicates the relay and pump wiring. When you ground that connector, you are doing what the ECU does when it thinks the pump should run.
So with things put back, check again if you get two clicks, a second or two apart. If not, then we have to trace back to the ECU and then find out why the ECU isn't commanding the pump to run. |
So, I am not insane after all! 8-
Not sure how to do the test, though. 
Late to bed, take care.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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67SQARE
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Waterford, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:05 am Post subject: Relay test |
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You need to use a regular test light hooked to ground. Probe all terminals with key on and relay plugged in. One of the terminals should make the relay energize. If this happens and relay clicks and pump runs it is definately the ground signal from ECM that is missing and all other wiring for pump and relay are confirmed OK. You will not hurt anything by testing this way. If you need the complete test procedure, I can retype it over again. (  cause I typed it up all cool, but when I clicked to upload, it got erased) If this quick test works, I'll go through the troubleshooting steps from there with you. Feel free to email me.
Mitch
[email protected]
BTW My first post on here. |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: |
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http://classicvw.org/gallery2/main.php
I have not removed anything from my site. It is the middle of the top row, the first page.
The fuel pump relay only comes on for about 1 sec. when you first turn your key on, unless you crank then engine. From there, the trigger point circuit through the ECU runs it.
There should be 1 red wire going to the fuel pump on the #87 terminal of the relay, unless you have automatic trans. There should be a red wire from the fuse box to the terminal 30/51. Terminal 86 wire goes to the terminal 87 of the power relay under the rear seat. Terminal 85 goes through the connector in the engine compartment to terminal #19 of the ECU.
I will just about bet, that there was nothing wrong with the original relay. That both red wires were on the #87 terminal, and not one on 87, and the other on 30/51.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| 67SQARE wrote: |
You need to use a regular test light hooked to ground. Probe all terminals with key on and relay plugged in. One of the terminals should make the relay energize. If this happens and relay clicks and pump runs it is definately the ground signal from ECM that is missing and all other wiring for pump and relay are confirmed OK. You will not hurt anything by testing this way. If you need the complete test procedure, I can retype it over again. ( cause I typed it up all cool, but when I clicked to upload, it got erased) If this quick test works, I'll go through the troubleshooting steps from there with you. Feel free to email me.
Mitch
[email protected]
BTW My first post on here. |
Mitch, glad to have the honor of a first post in response to my issue.
I was thinking last night, and was going to use the ohm funtion, but this is way better: thank you!
| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
http://classicvw.org/gallery2/main.php
I have not removed anything from my site. It is the middle of the top row, the first page.
The fuel pump relay only comes on for about 1 sec. when you first turn your key on, unless you crank then engine. From there, the trigger point circuit through the ECU runs it.
There should be 1 red wire going to the fuel pump on the #87 terminal of the relay, unless you have automatic trans. There should be a red wire from the fuse box to the terminal 30/51. Terminal 86 wire goes to the terminal 87 of the power relay under the rear seat. Terminal 85 goes through the connector in the engine compartment to terminal #19 of the ECU.
I will just about bet, that there was nothing wrong with the original relay. That both red wires were on the #87 terminal, and not one on 87, and the other on 30/51. |
Russ, thank you for helping! Now, can you please get some coffee, and reread? (See below.)
I found it, thus why I edited my post.
That is the thing: all the wires are in the right place. I went though this previously, but in short, all is right except the pump not coming on when the ignition is switched on.
I too agree that the relays are just fine: it is the E.C.U.. That is the only thing that has not been tested. The new relay changed nothing, voltages are correct, and all the wiring is in good shape and in the right locations.
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Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: |
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hold on their hoss.
one last test'er roo.
Run a jumper wire between the big plug on the ecu, number 11 IIRC, and ground it on the engine somewhere. if that suddenly makes everything work then it is NOT the ECU and is the ground wire in the FI harness, most likely the end isn't making good contact. if everything still doesn't work, then the internal ground is kaput.
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71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I would sooner expect a wire break somewhere rather than a bad ECU.
You've seen this diagram, right?
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