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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I understand what you are doing... I made the same decisions over 25 years ago.
You are plumbing everything into a breather box that has a weiner little breather hole that is less than 50% of what the stock set-up offers.
Your engine is almost 25% bigger... Chances are your big pistons and cylinders have, or eventually will have alot more blow-by than stock.
Your attempting to make more than 60 horsepower and 4500 rpms and your breather is about the gauge of a 600 cc engine. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here.
Last edited by Type 5 Joe on Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Vellat Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2004 Posts: 1590 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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This reminds me of one of the things on my to-do list...make a road draft tube breather with the smaller diameter nipple on the backside of the cap. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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I remember hearing that dumping all of that hot breather air straight into the intake raised head temps by a significant amount... _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7373
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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I am with Joe-that filler is a bad design in my opinion. First it will loosen up over time just by driving and due to the weight of the box, second if it does loosen it it will leak oil down the alt stand which will run down the case and down the cylinder tin and piss you off, third as you said the oil filler has a low point which is below the hole on the alternator stand so to properly fill your oil you are better off removing the front cover and putting the oil directly down the alt stand as it was designed, and maybe most importantly it does not ever allow for any breathing more then the stock filler/breather did since the fittings are so small 1/4NPT (put a tape measure on them and compare them to the openings in the stock filler (plus on the stock filler you also have the road down tube).
You would be better off going to the stock filler with the down tube (make sure you use the rubber nipple at the bottom) and then running it to a catch can (you can get one off ebay for like 10-15 bucks or some type of breather box or build something out of PVC or a plastic bottle old school style). If you are running a little K & N breather on top of a set up in your engine compartment you are going to get little sprays of oil all over your engine compartment and you mentioned that you don't want that so I would consider doing something else. |
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volksterii Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2006 Posts: 425 Location: San Diego CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I fix the oil draining into the valve covers by tapping those fittings inside the breather with about 1 inch extensions. Kinda like snorkels. Put some of that copper scrubbers into the baffles and you will get very little oil out of the top. I also installed a draft tube using the side port (on the back side of the breather) on the breather. I also used both top ports, one to each carb. As long as you used proper size fittings, you will increase breathing over stock. _________________ 71 Westy Hardtop, 1915
2005 Touareg V8 air susp. |
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Eaallred Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003 Posts: 5756 Location: West Valley City, Utah
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: |
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manxcraig wrote: |
Is anybody running a pan-vac system like the V8 drag racers?
Thoughts? |
I do:
3/4" breather lines from each valve cover and from the oil filler to the box. Box is baffled with two seperate chambers inside leading to a single 5/8" line that goes down to the exhaust. Both my stinger and muffler have this check valve welded in them, they both perform the same (the 3" Magnaflow flows plenty of air for this engine).
Pulley is sand-sealed, and dipstick tube is capped off so the only place the engine vents at all, is through the exhaust. It pulls a pretty decent vacuum on the engine, judging by how well the hose sucks to my arm just free-revving it. _________________ Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you guys are right. It doesn't make any sense to dump both valve covers into the box plus the alt stand breather and then only have one 1/4NPT tube running out the top to relieve the pressure. There are two 1/4NPT fitting on the breather box top side. I can see about four different options.
1) Use one top port to the r/h side carb air filter plus a K&N filter on the other top port.
2) Run two hoses from the top ports to each carb air filter.
3) Run one hose to the r/h carb and one down as a draft tube.
4) Weld up both top holes and drill and tap for a larger size fitting like 1/2 inch NPT for more volume and just run the one hose to the right side carb. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Eric
The problem I see with your system is it needs oil / air separation baffle at the crankcase vent.
You also should be running crankcase a vent line with twice the area of the stock breather system. Maybe go larger and run two lines....
The crankcase produces twice or more crankcase pressure than the heads do. You have 2 times the breathing ability from the heads and 1/2 as much as you need from the crankcase. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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Budes45 Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2005 Posts: 233 Location: NW Indiana
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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I have been using the CB box for over two years with no issues, and for the $35 it was money well spent. I don’t use a mechanical fuel pump so I plugged one of the bottom holes and the other drains back into the case via the fuel pump block off plate. I have my two valve covers vent into the back of the box and the top is vented to my passenger side wheel well. I did run one of the small breather filters and found it can clog over time and you will loose your venting capability. I found this when I had oil leaking from behind my crank pulley, so if you run the breather filter be sure to clean it from time to time. |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Type 5 Joe wrote: |
Eric
The problem I see with your system is it needs oil / air separation baffle at the crankcase vent.
You also should be running crankcase a vent line with twice the area of the stock breather system. Maybe go larger and run two lines....
The crankcase produces twice or more crankcase pressure than the heads do. You have 2 times the breathing ability from the heads and 1/2 as much as you need from the crankcase. |
Did you see the big @$$ breather box the vents go into?
If he is not leaking oil why does he need more CC venting?
Eric's system looks like the best system I have seen beside Muffler Mikes system. He is pulling the vapors from the internal engine and geting rid of them. What more is needed? Plain simple. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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Type 5 Joe Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003 Posts: 1795 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: |
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I can see exactly what he is running....
Just trying to give some positive suggestion. _________________ If you would like to contact me, just email through one of my ads on here...
I don't use the P.M. service on here. |
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lostinbaja Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004 Posts: 4036 Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I have been running the CB breather for about 6 years with no issues. I have the bottom fitting plumbed into the fuel pump block off the top rear fittings run to the valve covers and a K&N breather filter on top. I did stuff the box with copper scouring pad to help pull the oil out of the air coming into the box. It works great with no oily mess.
_________________ Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92
Last edited by lostinbaja on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: Update |
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Here's a pic of what I'm doing. I still need the hose to run from the breather to the carb.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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joescoolcustoms Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006 Posts: 9054 Location: West By God Virginia
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Engine looks killer aeromech! The GB Linkage is the best out there.
I still think it is a bad idea to route CC Vapors into carb top. But report back and tell us how it works over time so we know. _________________ Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Joe,
As soon as I can get some fuel lines to the carbs I'll be running this baby. Maybe tomorrow.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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jl_1303 Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2006 Posts: 569
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Out of interest, where do you get the rubber grommets that the valve cover vent hoses run thru the back tin?
They sure look tidy. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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jl_1303 wrote: |
Out of interest, where do you get the rubber grommets that the valve cover vent hoses run thru the back tin?
They sure look tidy. |
When I did mine, I got them from the local ACE Hardware. They have boxes of assorted sizes.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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jl_1303 wrote: |
Out of interest, where do you get the rubber grommets that the valve cover vent hoses run thru the back tin?
They sure look tidy. |
Hmmm, what's the best way to put this...
I happen to have a very good source but it's only available to a few people that I know. I'm not trying to be cute, just covering my ass.... _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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aeromech wrote: |
jl_1303 wrote: |
Out of interest, where do you get the rubber grommets that the valve cover vent hoses run thru the back tin?
They sure look tidy. |
Hmmm, what's the best way to put this...
I happen to have a very good source but it's only available to a few people that I know. I'm not trying to be cute, just covering my ass.... |
One of the perks of the job i guess _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
jl_1303 wrote: |
Out of interest, where do you get the rubber grommets that the valve cover vent hoses run thru the back tin?
They sure look tidy. |
Hmmm, what's the best way to put this...
I happen to have a very good source but it's only available to a few people that I know. I'm not trying to be cute, just covering my ass.... |
One of the perks of the job i guess |
Some people might say that. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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