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Upgrading to H4 headlights?
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Upgrading to H4 headlights? Reply with quote

G'day,

I just wanted to ask about putting H4s into a late bay. Info seems to be a little spotty on the matter.

it looks like the 7" H4 semi-sealed units are pretty much a direct fit. Is this true?

What happens regarding the parking lights?

I'm asking because my old reflectors in my semi-sealeds have chrome rot pretty bad and they need to be replaced for roadworthiness.

Because I'm up for money either way the conversion is a possibility.

What do people have to say on the matter?
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7" round H4 are a direct swap... nothing different than a sealed beam.
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BlakeH00
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Hella H4 lights, not sealed. I put Sylvainia Silverstars in them and made a HUGE difference. It was pricey, but totally worth it. The low beams are a tad wider but the high beams are night and day different.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely love my H4's. I put a set of the Bosch units in my '79. I highly recommend the upgrade.
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Casey Ryan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no problem. Got the straight light conversion kits from BusDepot. pulled the old ones out, plugged the new ones in. Cool thing is you can do the blue xeon lights if you want. Way brighter.

Casey
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info! I still would like to know about the parking lights though. Does it have a separate hole for them still, or would I have to drill and file, or what? I crave information!
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Casey Ryan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regarding your parking lights. if they're rotted (holes and crap) you prolly will have to drill the rivits and buy new reflectors or used ones that are okay.

Ratwell had a recommended upgrade that was putting reflective tape as the backing to all lights. I did this and thought it was awesome too. Might last you and serve the purpose.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EssentialUpgrades.html#nice
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casey Ryan wrote:

Ratwell had a recommended upgrade that was putting reflective tape as the backing to all lights. I did this and thought it was awesome too. Might last you and serve the purpose.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EssentialUpgrades.html

I saw reflective tape for the bumper but not for lights. I wouldn't put tape on the reflectors of lights, especially Euro E4's!! I got 'em in my Bus and they're great as-is.

As for the Euro parking lights, I did have to cut or grind a little metal out of the way for the bulb. It was very minor. Then I primered and painted it to keep the rust at...wait for it...BAY! Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casey Ryan wrote:
regarding your parking lights. if they're rotted (holes and crap) you prolly will have to drill the rivits and buy new reflectors or used ones that are okay.


I have to assume since he's in Australia, he's not talking about the parking lights in the turn signals, he's talking about parking lights that are integral to the headlight. US Spec Buses don't have the parking lights in the headlights like an Aussie Bus would. You would have to check with a supplier in your area to find out about the parking lights and if Bosch or Hella make a unit with the integral parking light.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Air_Cooled_Nut wrote:


As for the Euro parking lights, I did have to cut or grind a little metal out of the way for the bulb. It was very minor. Then I primered and painted it to keep the rust at...wait for it...BAY! Laughing



Haw! - lol, good one. Very Happy

back on topic, i miss my h4's - had them in an old car of mine, then took them out before i sold it...i think my dad installed them...oh, now i remember, they were the square ones on my old celica.

some of you will hate me for this but i had 80w low and 130w high beam off road bulbs in there. i could see for nearly a kilometer ahead at night!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7" H-4's aren't going to be a direct swap if your bus has VW Euro bulb type lights now. You'll need us spec baskets ot the Mexi Bosch ones like CIP sells that have the mounting ears and adjusters built in.
You can drill the reflectors in the new lights for the city lights or swap your signal housings for 2 filament units.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
Casey Ryan wrote:
regarding your parking lights. if they're rotted (holes and crap) you prolly will have to drill the rivits and buy new reflectors or used ones that are okay.


I have to assume since he's in Australia, he's not talking about the parking lights in the turn signals, he's talking about parking lights that are integral to the headlight. US Spec Buses don't have the parking lights in the headlights like an Aussie Bus would. You would have to check with a supplier in your area to find out about the parking lights and if Bosch or Hella make a unit with the integral parking light.


Ohhhh. You mean having the parking light bulb in the headlamp assembly isn't world standard? Sorry. I had no idea!
Yes, I do mean the parking bulb in the headlights.
I'll have to check that out.

Busdaddy, Can't fo a dual filament signal. Not road legal here to my knowledge. I fitted clear lenses and orange bulbs as you can probably just make out in my avatar, which is legal here, but unfortunately I believe to put parking lights in there too, which may well not be legal, I'd have to figure out how to fit a second bulb.
probably wouldn't be too hard to fit a parking style socket, but legality is a big ???. I'd have to talk to the RTA and if they say it's alright possibly get an engineer certificate.

What a royal pain in the posterior.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use these (whatever bulb color you want)
In something like these (can't see the Mexi ones, maybe they are out).

You can use these (beware, kinda cheap looking, name brand would be better) but you'll also need these.
Some people like these but I'm not one of them, your local inspector may not like plastic with no DOT markings either.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use H4 units with a 194 lamp in it for a DRL. I also have 100 watt headlamps in them, along with relays and 12 gauge wiring to the lamps. These are fed directly from the battery via a 40 amp fused, 8 gauge wire to an accessory feed block at the front, along with a 8 gauge dedicated ground.

I can see pretty well at night. Cool Idea Idea

Sealed beam, DOT legal junk is so last millenium................ Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having worked for a distributor & wholesaled lighting products (alphabetically: Bosch/Cibie/Cooper/Hella/Marchal/Wagner) for several years, I've come to some personal conclusions about the 7" H4 headlights available for our bays.

1st choice is Cibie "Z-Beams"; hands down the best IMO. Excellent beam pattern, and with their low beam's flat cutoff, their use, for me, almost eliminates the need for fog lights in all but total "pea soup" fog conditions. Only US-legal for motorcycles, but if you aim them properly, they never bother oncoming traffic. Problem: Cibie only produced them for a few years at most. Occasionally they do come up used or NOS at swapmeets, and for a variety of prices.

2nd choice is Cibie #7HCR (7HCRA w/ parking light inside). E-Code; not US-legal. Worth the price? It's a personal choice. In addition to top quality products, Daniel Stern's excellent site is jammed full of great info http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

3rd Choice is Bosch # 0 301 600 118, another 'US-legal only for motorcycles' unit, but nice. See Ratwell's neat article on this light & great commentary on the legality issues http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BoschH4.html#cycle

IMHO it goes downhill real quick from there. There are some Hella, Cibie & Bosch units (all technically US-illegal) from various countries that vary in beam effectiveness & quality; some are improvements over the readily-available (DOT-legal) sealed beam halogen bulbs, others... less so. A few old used Carrellos, Marchals, Cibies, Hellas & Bosch with the old fat round bulbs turn up at VW/Porsche meets. Great period looks for show vehicles, although Dan Stern does have halogen conversion bulbs for that style. No clue about on-the-road effectiveness; ask Daniel.

When selling the E-code headlamps to shops, sometimes I'd do side-by-side tests vs. whatever cheap Polish/Brazilian/Mexican/Chinese 7" lights (also US-illegal) they were selling to their (primarily VW & Porsche) customers. The wide difference in the consistency of the beam patterns among the different examples of the same cheap model numbers was striking, whereas the Bosch & Cibie were very predictable. But hey... maybe some people just never drive at night!

To improve the useful light output even more, larger wiring (AWG #8 or 10?), through a fuse or circuit breaker, directly from the battery to relays near the headlamps, allowing the factory's marginal headlight switch/wiring/relay system to merely control the aftermarket relays, can make a significant contribution. To echo others: all ground connections must be good.

Sorry for the long post, but I really enjoy driving a bay at night in any weather, especially on long trips, kind of a communion with the vehicle and the road. YMMV
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my H4's from these guys:


http://www.rallylights.com/Hella_7_inch_Round_H4_%20Headlamps.aspx


I think it was the "vision plus." Being in Aus. I'm sure you have options with cheaper shipping.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

has anyone realised that this guy needs rhd headlights?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oorwullie wrote:
has anyone realised that this guy needs rhd headlights?


I was going to say something about this, but I was still taking in what had been written.

All I have found in 7" H4 setups so far locally are the lens/reflector for about $95 each. From this thread I guess I need the mounts too.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cibie, Hella, and Bosch all make RHD lamps with parking lights - just be sure to specify this when ordering. They should fit in your stock mounts.

I, too, prefer Cibie. They seem to have a superior beam pattern.
Once had a Camry with quad rectangulars. Had 55/100 in the outers and 100 watt H1's in the inner pair. Wired up using relays. That's 400 watts forward on high beam. It was wonderful! When I eventually dumped the car, I kept the lights...

Problem is, they don't fit the bus...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
They should fit in your stock mounts...


You have seen VW Euro headlights with the bulb and reflector, right? There is no mount, the trim ring is the mount unlike seal beam units with the separate baskets and adjusters to hold the bulbs. IIRC there are also no tabs in the headlight bucket to screw the baskets to, not a giant pain but someting to consider.
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