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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Emily's Owner wrote: |
Gotta say my H4's are the best upgrade my bus has had (came off our old Ford van in 1981 when my dad bought a new one) over the years.
I'm sure I'm running the not DOT approved bulbs, but no one has complained... yet |
Yep.
I've done the upgrade to both of my Buses. The '78 has a homebrew kit with motorcycle headlamps the Bus Depot used to sell.
The '73 has this full kit. They market it for Vanagons and not Buses, but it was very easy to adapt the instructions to make it fit in my Bus. I don't remember the exact changes I made to the Vanagon instructions-may have just been attaching to different fuse numbers in the Bus than what the instructions say in the kit for a Eurovan. But it was VERY easy to figure out with a multimeter.
https://www.busdepot.com/visionkit1 _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Shonandb Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019 Posts: 1102 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? Don't buy from CIP1 |
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As expected, I went back to CIP1 and sent the pics showing the high beam pattern and explained that the EMPI H4 lights are not working as expected on high beam and asked if they could at least take a look at them and compare to other stock in case I received a defective pair but they told me that nothing could be done. I tried to reason with them to at least look at them but their customer service approach is to not support the product.
I didn't ask for my money back or demand a replacement, I just asked them to look at them as maybe it is a batch issue and other customers may have the same issue, but they said no. I politely told them that they just lost a long term customer and I will share my experience with others and they seemed fine with it.
I have always supported them when others had negative things to say about their products and service but this was my second negative dealing with them when they sent me a defective product (sliding door latch mechanism that was made without the latch part) and made it difficult to return it even though it was obvious from the pictures.
I'm done with them and I urge others to be careful buying anything from CIP1.
Rant over! _________________ *******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I am with NASkeet on this one. I use 100/80's on my H4s in my 412. Huge difference.
I also agree from the past few days posts....about the light pattern sucking on the OP's EMPI H4 set....and the cause for that I can tell you for fact....can be seen in the picture of the flutes in the glass.
Flutes in glass lenses are technically rounded "prisms". Their purpose is to change the ligjt input beam direction from the source (the bulb at the parabolic apex).....and project over a wider area.
The problem is usually in the thickness and curve of the flutes. The fluting I see on Hella and older Bosch....are shallower and narrower and have more space between the flutes. They distort the light less and allow better "throw" or beam travel.
The problem with a lot of 3rd world copy type production.....is that they see fine details like thr fluting in the lenses and just copy its "appearance" and not the actual critical measurements of the lenses.
Another thing....at least with older Hella headlights.....is that they were not glass. They were lead crystal. The color clarity and lacking of diffusion made a difference. Ray |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2942 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Shonandb wrote: |
Old post but I recently upgraded to H4 headlights from CIP1 and have a question on the light pattern. Low beams seem to shine farther in the distance and are more focused where the high beams are a wider pattern but don't shine as far down the road.
Here are the 2 patterns on my garage door.
High Beam
Low Beam
Does this look right? |
From the British perspective, both of those beam patterns are terrible on both main (i.e. high) or dipped (i.e. low) beams, irrespective of whether they are LHD or RHD headlamps!
I think any vehicle fitted with those in either Great Britain, the European Union and elsewhere, would fail the road worthiness inspections for that alone! _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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MuzzcoVW Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2018 Posts: 1408 Location: Westfield, MA.
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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germansupplyscott wrote: |
The Hella 70476 is not DOT approved. The Hella 70477 is DOT legal. There isn't a big difference in the prices, but the DOT legal are more $.
I agree with the comments above about the Hella H4 being pretty much the best option. There used to be a very good quality Bosch H4 unit but they seem to have disappeared. |
The only problem I have with the Hellas is the flat glass. Any idea if there's an alternative that's still available? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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MuzzcoVW wrote: |
germansupplyscott wrote: |
The Hella 70476 is not DOT approved. The Hella 70477 is DOT legal. There isn't a big difference in the prices, but the DOT legal are more $.
I agree with the comments above about the Hella H4 being pretty much the best option. There used to be a very good quality Bosch H4 unit but they seem to have disappeared. |
The only problem I have with the Hellas is the flat glass. Any idea if there's an alternative that's still available? |
Well.....the flat glass. On a beetle or a bus where the domed/curved headlight is large enough to be an integral part of the close up visual image/detail of the vehicle......yes....I can see it being a "minor" issue (majpr for some)......but that flat face along with the fluting in the glass and the reflector geometry.....is a part of why they project light so much better.
Ray |
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brass gears Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2013 Posts: 64 Location: Calgary,AB
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I put these Hellas on my bus a few years ago. The light pattern is as it should be. I don’t have a photo of the pattern but they are perfect.
They’re not completely flat. They are slightly convex. One of the best upgrades I have done and recommend them over the DOT bulbs.
_________________ ‘70 transporter
‘ 64 beetle |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Valeo Cibie are a good way to go. Use a VOM to find every little spot voltage is lost on the positive and ground side to get best light output. As I recall, I found about 3V lost all along the path, and got the voltage at the lights up from about 11.3V across them to 12.9V. That raised output over 10%. The main buss is about 14V when the engine is running but the 1.1V I am still losing is in the light and ignition switches, and even new ones didn't change that. I thought about adding a line from the battery, and a relay but that is just one more place for something to go wrong. |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? Don't buy from CIP1 |
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Shonandb wrote: |
I'm done with them and I urge others to be careful buying anything from CIP1.
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I have been saying this for years. Some just learn the hard way about CIP1 like I did. Support the businesses that truly support our hobby and the customers. I wrote to CIP1 on several occasions to simply correct some product descriptions on their website to prevent others from buying incompatible parts and they ignored me. _________________ All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33820 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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If you bought with a credit card you can dispute through the CC company.
Your photos, combined with photos you should find of proper patterns, shock convince the CC company to refund your money, as the product is defective. |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22403 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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germansupplyscott wrote: |
There used to be a very good quality Bosch H4 unit but they seem to have disappeared. |
Scott, you made me search through my parts to find these. I hunted these BOSCH H4's down like 10 months ago. Knowing there is/was/used to be BOSCH units.
From what I can tell they are NLA and discontinued. These are used ones I might use on the T34 vert - in these SB13 holders. I did notice these do not have diffusers in them - motorcycle?
_________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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SGKent wrote: |
Valeo Cibie are a good way to go. Use a VOM to find every little spot voltage is lost on the positive and ground side to get best light output. As I recall, I found about 3V lost all along the path, and got the voltage at the lights up from about 11.3V across them to 12.9V. That raised output over 10%. The main buss is about 14V when the engine is running but the 1.1V I am still losing is in the light and ignition switches, and even new ones didn't change that. I thought about adding a line from the battery, and a relay but that is just one more place for something to go wrong. |
Many come from Belgium
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DQV88Q/ref=o...a&th=1 |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2942 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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If you look down the page at the following link, it shows the expected Hella H4 quartz-halogen headlamp, asymmetric dipped-beam alignment for a 1979 VW Type 1 Beetle.
https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Automotive-lighting/Light-distribution-834/
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...ajaxserp=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&a...ajaxserp=0 _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3546 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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SGKent wrote: |
Valeo Cibie are a good way to go. Use a VOM to find every little spot voltage is lost on the positive and ground side to get best light output. As I recall, I found about 3V lost all along the path, and got the voltage at the lights up from about 11.3V across them to 12.9V. That raised output over 10%. The main buss is about 14V when the engine is running but the 1.1V I am still losing is in the light and ignition switches, and even new ones didn't change that. I thought about adding a line from the battery, and a relay but that is just one more place for something to go wrong.
Many come from Belgium
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DQV88Q/ref=o...a&th=1 |
If you like these (I like them better than Bosch / Hella), buy them quick, as I understand that they're discontinued from the mfg. (apparently the tooling is worn out, and they're not replacing it).
My all-time favorites were the (NLA) Cibie Z-beams, which had a flat cutoff on the right side rather than a rise (better for multi-lane traffic - you don't fry right side traffic in their left mirrors). Unfortunately, the 50 year old reflectors in mine are shot. Fortunately, I have a pair of the regular one (above) on the shelf...
Note: Cibie, pronounced C-B-A. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3546 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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(duplicate) _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
Last edited by telford dorr on Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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NASkeet Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006 Posts: 2942 Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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telford dorr wrote: |
SGKent wrote: |
Valeo Cibie are a good way to go. Use a VOM to find every little spot voltage is lost on the positive and ground side to get best light output. As I recall, I found about 3V lost all along the path, and got the voltage at the lights up from about 11.3V across them to 12.9V. That raised output over 10%. The main buss is about 14V when the engine is running but the 1.1V I am still losing is in the light and ignition switches, and even new ones didn't change that. I thought about adding a line from the battery, and a relay but that is just one more place for something to go wrong.
Many come from Belgium
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DQV88Q/ref=o...a&th=1 |
If you like these (I like them better than Bosch / Hella), buy them quick, as I understand that they're discontinued from the mfg. (apparently the tooling is worn out, and they're not replacing it).
My all-time favorites were the (NLA) Cibie Z-beams, which had a flat cutoff on the right side rather than a rise (better for multi-lane traffic - you don't fry right side traffic in their left mirrors). Unfortunately, the 50 year old reflectors in mine are shot. Fortunately, I have a pair of the regular one (above) on the shelf...
Note: Cibie, pronounced C-B-A. |
Unfortunately, flat-beam headlamps don't enable one to see pedestrians & cyclists on unlit roads! _________________ Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet
Independent tutor (semi-retired) of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.
Much modified, RHD 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan, with the World's only decent, cross-over-arm, SWF pantograph rear-window wiper
Onetime member, plus former Technical Editor & Editor of Transporter Talk magazine
Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club (Great Britain)
http://www.vwt2oc.net |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3546 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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Agreed. But then again, most of my driving is on lit multi-lane highways. where the right side rise isn't needed and the cutoff is appreciated by the other traffic. I suppose you buy what the situation dictates... _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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I had some CIBIE Z beams on the 1971, and also my spider. Loved them. I have a second set of the Valeo Cibie up in the parts stash. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Shonandb Samba Member
Joined: January 12, 2019 Posts: 1102 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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As CIP1 said they won't warranty these, I reached out directly to EMPI and they responded within 12 hours and asked me to send the pics and a summary of the problem. Sent that this morning and will report back on what they have to say.
_________________ *******************************
76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Upgrading to H4 headlights? |
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notchboy wrote: |
germansupplyscott wrote: |
There used to be a very good quality Bosch H4 unit but they seem to have disappeared. |
Scott, you made me search through my parts to find these. I hunted these BOSCH H4's down like 10 months ago. Knowing there is/was/used to be BOSCH units.
From what I can tell they are NLA and discontinued. These are used ones I might use on the T34 vert - in these SB13 holders. I did notice these do not have diffusers in them - motorcycle?
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Those are DOT spec lamps and will be different to the E-Code housings you are used to seeing. |
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