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Paul Windisch Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2546 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: Rear heat question |
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How many of you who drive in the colder months use the rear heat? The reason I ask is because I have a Mexican Beetle that never came with rear heat ducts (no y-pipes under the rear seat). There are a handful of Super Beetles in a local boneyard and was wondering if it would be worthwhile to scavange the y-pipes and install them in my car. My car heats up ok now, but if it would reduce the amount of time it takes to warm up the interior, I will consider the y's.
EDIT: I am not looking to install any bilge blowers, I already have a SB fresh air blower installed to pull heat and aid in defrosting. _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
-1914cc
-L3 Heads 35x32 valves 52cc chambers
-0.040" deck for about 9.1:1 Compression
-Engle W110 cam
-CB Super Stock 1.1:1 Rockers
-Stock Heat Exchangers w/ Tri-Mil Muffler
-Dual Weber IDF 40s w/ 26mm venturis
-034 SVDA Distributor
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6
MAHLE Service Solutions
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chicagovw Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Chicago IL/CHandler AZ
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I had a 64 that had excellent heat. The system was in excellent condition and even in very cold weather, the stock heater worked great.
I have a Mexican Beetle that is my daily driver, year round. It has better heat than any VW I have had excepting that 64. The air coming out of the heat and defroster ducts is stronger an I would imagine it is because it does not have the rear ducts.
One thing is that the stock Mexican heater boxes are inferior by a long shot in terms of heat output compared to the German ones or even the Danish ones. I replaced mine with Danish repops and the heat is much, much better.
I also run and Espar in my car now, but the stock heat isn't bad. |
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DrDarby Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 6531 Location: Northern Illinois
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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The pipes entering the rear are a different size in the Mexican beetle. Also the car only has one heat lever and no conduit to the rear so you could not operate the rear vents remotely. If you wanted defrost suddenly you 'd have to stop, get out and close the rear vents.
By adding the rear vents I think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot when it came to quality of air flow.
I've had many many beetles driven daily and a Mexican beetle with quality replacement heat exchangers have plenty of heat in the winter.
Mexican OEM heat exchangers as installed are simply a "J" pipe with a cover over it. You need to replace them with the HD Danish units commonly sold for max heat output. The output temps will go up an average of 40% with quality heat exchangers. _________________ Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL |
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Alister Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009 Posts: 225 Location: Mountain Home, Idaho
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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I use 'em all the time - I've found it heats the whole car more evenly doing so.
My heater system is almost entirely new, however - heater boxes, defroster hoses, fresh air hoses, box-to-cabin hoses. No issues with warmth or volume at all! Most of the time, I don't even need to bother closing the rear vents to defrost quickly! Just shut the front vents, and it's good. |
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Paul Windisch Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2546 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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DrDarby wrote: |
The pipes entering the rear are a different size in the Mexican beetle. Also the car only has one heat lever and no conduit to the rear so you could not operate the rear vents remotely. If you wanted defrost suddenly you 'd have to stop, get out and close the rear vents.
By adding the rear vents I think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot when it came to quality of air flow.
I've had many many beetles driven daily and a Mexican beetle with quality replacement heat exchangers have plenty of heat in the winter.
Mexican OEM heat exchangers as installed are simply a "J" pipe with a cover over it. You need to replace them with the HD Danish units commonly sold for max heat output. The output temps will go up an average of 40% with quality heat exchangers. |
I knew I would have to figure out some remote cables to open and close them (those are in the supers in the boneyard as well), but I did not know the channels in the rear were different diameters, hence I will not bother with them.
As for the heat exchangers, are the exhaust tube diameters the same between the Mexican and the Danish with the Mexican ones just lacking the heat sink? I don't want the exhaust tubes any smaller than they are.
Good info, though. I assumed that because the heat exchangers were stock, that they had heat sinks in them. The car heats up OK with what it has, I can only imagine how much better it would be with more surface area to transfer heat! Good stuff! _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
-1914cc
-L3 Heads 35x32 valves 52cc chambers
-0.040" deck for about 9.1:1 Compression
-Engle W110 cam
-CB Super Stock 1.1:1 Rockers
-Stock Heat Exchangers w/ Tri-Mil Muffler
-Dual Weber IDF 40s w/ 26mm venturis
-034 SVDA Distributor
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6
MAHLE Service Solutions
Applications Engineer |
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Back to top |
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chicagovw Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 1416 Location: Chicago IL/CHandler AZ
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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the tubes on my 90 fit both the original heater boxes as well as the Danish ones fine.
I recall on my 64 they had little thumb knobs on the rear vents that you used to open and close the vents-I could reach them from my seat pretty easily.
Leave your set up as is, just swap on the heater boxes. I live in Chicago, it doesn't get much colder unless you are way up north. |
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Paul Windisch Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2546 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nope, Fraser is only about 20-25 minutes NE of Detroit. We get the same weather as you, just usually a day later.
Where can I find these Danish boxes? _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
-1914cc
-L3 Heads 35x32 valves 52cc chambers
-0.040" deck for about 9.1:1 Compression
-Engle W110 cam
-CB Super Stock 1.1:1 Rockers
-Stock Heat Exchangers w/ Tri-Mil Muffler
-Dual Weber IDF 40s w/ 26mm venturis
-034 SVDA Distributor
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6
MAHLE Service Solutions
Applications Engineer |
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Back to top |
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DrDarby Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 6531 Location: Northern Illinois
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Mid America Motorworks sells a nice powder coated set #313-265 that is complete w/hardware etc.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-air-cooled-vw-heat-exchangers-and-components-1-54-6570.html
Take some extra time with your car instead of just removing the heat exchangers, remove the cross over pipe assembly. Get an extended rotary rasp for your drill. The Mexican exhaust's cross over pipe (or header) has the #1 cylinder & #3 cylinder's pipe's that connect to the heat exchanger welded to the main cross over pipe. Look INSIDE this pipe where it fits up to the main cross over tubing. You'll see an extremely restrictive small 3/4" oval hole letting the exhaust through. I can only assume this is done to force the #1 & #3 exhaust to run hotter for more heat. Take the rasp or whatever else you can find and open that restriction up. You'll notice a little gain in mid range HP and acceleration. You'll need to remove the muffler but it takes a standard three hole cat converter gasket you can get at any auto parts store if your's isn't reusable. _________________ Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL |
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Paul Windisch Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2546 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: |
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DrDarby wrote: |
Mid America Motorworks sells a nice powder coated set #313-265 that is complete w/hardware etc.
http://www.mamotorworks.com/acvw-air-cooled-vw-heat-exchangers-and-components-1-54-6570.html
Take some extra time with your car instead of just removing the heat exchangers, remove the cross over pipe assembly. Get an extended rotary rasp for your drill. The Mexican exhaust's cross over pipe (or header) has the #1 cylinder & #3 cylinder's pipe's that connect to the heat exchanger welded to the main cross over pipe. Look INSIDE this pipe where it fits up to the main cross over tubing. You'll see an extremely restrictive small 3/4" oval hole letting the exhaust through. I can only assume this is done to force the #1 & #3 exhaust to run hotter for more heat. Take the rasp or whatever else you can find and open that restriction up. You'll notice a little gain in mid range HP and acceleration. You'll need to remove the muffler but it takes a standard three hole cat converter gasket you can get at any auto parts store if your's isn't reusable. |
I'm not new to VWs, but what is the crossover pipe? Perhaps for fuel injection? My car is carbureted and has no cat, it is a 1984 (model year). Just making sure I didn't miss something. Maybe a picture, please.
The engine is not stock, nor is the muffler, but the heater boxes are the ones that came with the car when it was stock, presumably stock mexican. I do not recall ever seeing any crossover tubes. Thanks! _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
-1914cc
-L3 Heads 35x32 valves 52cc chambers
-0.040" deck for about 9.1:1 Compression
-Engle W110 cam
-CB Super Stock 1.1:1 Rockers
-Stock Heat Exchangers w/ Tri-Mil Muffler
-Dual Weber IDF 40s w/ 26mm venturis
-034 SVDA Distributor
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6
MAHLE Service Solutions
Applications Engineer |
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Back to top |
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DrDarby Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2004 Posts: 6531 Location: Northern Illinois
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I assumed it was a late model Mexi with fuel injection. That said I'd pull a fresh air pipe and look down the heat exchanger with a flashlight and you may find you already have HD heat exchangers. I don't think Mexico dropped the heat syncs until around your year plus given the age of your car they may have been replaced. _________________ Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Woodstock, IL |
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Paul Windisch Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2009 Posts: 2546 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, I'll check them out.
So, I'm assuming if I have heat sinks, they will be visible through the fresh air hose connector on the box? _________________ *ASE Recertified Master Automotive Tech*
1984 Mexican Beetle
-1914cc
-L3 Heads 35x32 valves 52cc chambers
-0.040" deck for about 9.1:1 Compression
-Engle W110 cam
-CB Super Stock 1.1:1 Rockers
-Stock Heat Exchangers w/ Tri-Mil Muffler
-Dual Weber IDF 40s w/ 26mm venturis
-034 SVDA Distributor
2013 Chevrolet Volt DD
2005 Pontiac Montana SV6
MAHLE Service Solutions
Applications Engineer |
|
Back to top |
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