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any one run dual streering box
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nitrous nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:23 am    Post subject: any one run dual streering box Reply with quote

hi new here love the fourm lots of info.
i was thinking of running 2 gear boxes on my steering to try and get rid of some bump steer. so i was just wondering if anyone has had any luck with this? the gear box on the pass. side would be used as a idler arm. here is a pic of my buggy its a appletree 4 seater

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thanks sam[/img]
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HamburgerBrad
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you would need to use a RHD pitman arm if you want to run two steering boxes.
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thesatelliteguy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not just get rack and pinion?
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65BAJA
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an isteresting idea. Could you post some close up pics?
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nitrous nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

65baja i have not started it yet so no pics yet.

HamburgerBrad thanks i never thought of that.

thesatelliteguy i have 2 gear boxes. plus i have a friend with a rack and pinion. i didnt like it.

i seen this set up on a buggy with 2x4 front arms. the pass side box was guted. i was thinking the tires should turn more even (less drag steer)
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kyle_pc_75
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the concept, please enlighten me. What would the advantage be?

Kyle
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Cuog
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be looking at this wrong, but I think 2 steering boxes may be counter productive, kinda.

First I will assume that your plan would be to run into the driver side steering box as normal. Then one tie rod goes to the left front wheel, and the other tie rod goes to the other steering box. From there a tie rod would go down to the right front wheel correct?

I seem to recall that VWs still have bumpsteer on the left front wheel, the geometry of which you would not be changing. However you would be making the geometry of the right front wheel match that of the left. So while I don't think it would reduce bump steer, it seems to me it would at least make it uniform, and somewhat more predictable from side to side.
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nitrous nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cuog wrote:
I may be looking at this wrong, but I think 2 steering boxes may be counter productive, kinda.

First I will assume that your plan would be to run into the driver side steering box as normal. Then one tie rod goes to the left front wheel, and the other tie rod goes to the other steering box. From there a tie rod would go down to the right front wheel correct?

I seem to recall that VWs still have bumpsteer on the left front wheel, the geometry of which you would not be changing. However you would be making the geometry of the right front wheel match that of the left. So while I don't think it would reduce bump steer, it seems to me it would at least make it uniform, and somewhat more predictable from side to side.

you got it
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KrAzY-BaJa
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with stock arms and the amount of travel they have while driving off road you would hardly tell that you have any bumpsteer
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STOICH
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KrAzY-BaJa wrote:
with stock arms and the amount of travel they have while driving off road you would hardly tell that you have any bumpsteer



exactly.... Rolling Eyes
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bdkw1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am doing exactly that with My Kyote for gas tank and tunnel clearance. It will also give Me a spare box for backup in Baja. It will still have bump steer........

Will post up some pics when I get to it after the 1000........
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bdkw1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, for a rail like yours, on one I had in the past I moved the box to the center of the beam to even out the tie rod length and gain wheel travel on the P-side. All it takes is 2 U-joints and a little tie rod work.......
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Gary Massin-Ball
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How bout use the passenger long tie rod as a drag link and use the same length long tie rod and go from the drivers side spindle to half way on the passenger tie rod.

Just gusset the passenger side tie rod with a couple lengths of angle iron top and bottom using small enough width to still have enough room for the tie rod and in between the two and drill a large and small hole in the passenger tie rod to accomodate the taper in the drivers inner tie rod end.

I did that on mine and I have vitually zero bump steer from full droop to full compression and no more bending stuff.

I was getting tired of bending the drivers tie rod, end and steering arm after landing a large jump.

With the drivers tie rod being so short the bump steer was so much that as you land the drivers wheel starts to turn left as the suspension compresses while the car is still going straight causing crazy force on the leading edge of the tire and bending stuff!

In keeping with the title of this thread I think dual steering boxes would cause both wheels to have bump steer not just the drivers side as you will be shortening the passenger side tie rod.

My example uses 2 passenger side long tie rods. Thats the key is to use longer tie rods not shorter.
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bdkw1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary Massin-Ball wrote:
Thats the key is to use longer tie rods not shorter.


Or get the inner tie rod pivots closer to the beam.......... Like a rack......
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xirxious
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you look at the suspension of a 70's or older Camaro, they use and idler arm mounted on the frame to do this same concept. You can use one like it and have a modified pitman arm from a bug to do so. I'd goto a rack for that much work. Keep in mind, you can never truly eliminate bump steer all over. Once you corner, turning the wheel moved the pivot points out of ideal location. Unless you mounted electric motors on your spindles to drive by wire Rolling Eyes
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bdkw1
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xirxious wrote:
Keep in mind, you can never truly eliminate bump steer all over. Once you corner, turning the wheel moved the pivot points out of ideal location.


Not true, idler arms set up with the same axis inclination as the uprights and the same length as the steering arms will yield almost zero bump steer in corners. The actual amount of deviation will not be worth worrying about or noticeable.
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rustin peace
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why dont you get an idler arm and drag link off of a superbeetle? it would probably be way simpler to set up than 2 gear boxes


go from your steering box to the idler arm with the super drag link and then run 2 short tie rods from the drag link to each wheel
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Gary Massin-Ball
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some pics of my set up!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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STOICH
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Shocked hang on... its still coming to me...
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STOICH
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STOICH wrote:
Rolling Eyes Shocked hang on... its still coming to me...

not to be cruel... but, um...are you a black widow or something? I thought my car was over-engineered
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