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Scat lifters? Problems or not?
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jakeddy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Scat lifters? Problems or not? Reply with quote

I've been reading some "older"threads here and there saying Scat lifters might have problems causing cam failures. What's the current view on them? I'd like to know before I put a set in my engine.
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DarthWeber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why even bother taking a chance with Scat when you've got higher quality SLR's reground parkerized lifters and CB's lightweight lifters available. And if you've got bucks there's always Udo Becker tool steel lifters.
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perrib
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthWeber wrote:
Why even bother taking a chance with Scat when you've got higher quality SLR's reground parkerized lifters and CB's lightweight lifters available. And if you've got bucks there's always Udo Becker tool steel lifters.


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77charger
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the standard scat not the lube a lobes.Heard the lube a lobes werenot to good.

Hope they last a while.But its not an everyday motor and plan on tearing down this summer.Its in a sand rail so i plan a yearly teardown anyways.
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

77charger wrote:
I used the standard scat not the lube a lobes.Heard the lube a lobes werenot to good.

Hope they last a while.But its not an everyday motor and plan on tearing down this summer.Its in a sand rail so i plan a yearly teardown anyways.


The lubealobes and non-lubealobes are the same lifter, just one has a hole in it. They will both pit equally as much as the other.

I had SLR re-grind and parkerize a set of Scat lifters, i'll see on the next teardown how they're doing.
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be good if we could have a sticky grouping the lifters that are good for single HD springs and those that are good for doubles pairing against different brands of cams used.
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77charger
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eaallred wrote:
77charger wrote:
I used the standard scat not the lube a lobes.Heard the lube a lobes werenot to good.

Hope they last a while.But its not an everyday motor and plan on tearing down this summer.Its in a sand rail so i plan a yearly teardown anyways.


The lubealobes and non-lubealobes are the same lifter, just one has a hole in it. They will both pit equally as much as the other.

I had SLR re-grind and parkerize a set of Scat lifters, i'll see on the next teardown how they're doing.


Thanks I just built the motor this summer and based on my the way i drive it in the dunes is why i will teardown every season depending on the hours i put on it.My last 1914 went 2 seasons beofre i took it apart to swap rods and cam(ended up going with an 82 crank last minute).Some of the bearings were starting to show some wear,cam and german lifters looked good,cam bearings were showing wear on the thrust bearing.

I usually keep motor at 3k and up alot of burst from 3-7k.Gives me something to do in the summertime anyways and i do all my own labor so cost is cheap.
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jakeddy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... another "constant I'm seeing in replies is CB's lifters are good. Maybe I need to smell the coffee instead of drink the kool-aid.
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grimace007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from everything ive seen personally the scat lifters go bad on engle cams
but are fine with scat and webcams...

anyone had them go bad on a scat or webcam?
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also heard that the Scat lifters works fine with Scat cams.

I wonder what lifters (apart from the Udo's) would work with Engle cams.
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Sigurd
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Scats and an Engle and tore it down an hour after break-in and couldn't really see any problems. Nice wear pattern on both pieces.

I've thought about Udo's lifters just for peace of mind though.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tear it down in 15k and tell me what it looks like.

Just pulled mine apart (Scat with the SLR and a Web cam)-4 of the 8 lifters were cratered like the moon, 2 were in the beginning stages of pitting, and the other 2 looked fine. I had about 15k street miles on them.

It does not matter what coating you put on a POS product, the part is still crap.

I was warned but already had them so I used them.

Needless to say I will not be using these lifters ever again.
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borninabus
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW i have lube a lobes on a 1776; W-100 that have about 50k on them.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

borninabus wrote:
FWIW i have lube a lobes on a 1776; W-100 that have about 50k on them.


What valve spring pressures are you using? With the correct oil and mild cams lifter choice may not be a big deal even with questionable quality Chinese cast iron. Since the word got out about the correct oil to use there is a lot less reported cam / lifter failures.

I lost a known good set of lifters and a perfect 10 year old W130 cam in two days to no ZDDP being in the oil when the ZDDP was first removed from the oil.

Next I lost the Web version of an Engle VZ 30 cam and a set of Web lifters with Bradd Penn oil. Both the cam and the lifters started to pit in 2000 miles.

Enough was enough I bought 4 sets of Udos cam followers. I will be swapping cams in the next few months and will get to see how the first set has held up with another Web VZ 30 style cam for the last 4,000 miles. They are made from the material VW valve shims were made of which did not wear and could be reused.

Jake Raby has spent a lot of time investigating lifters and states the Scat lifter has large open pores in them when viewed under a microscope.

Competition Cams has spent a lot of money and time to fix the Chinese syndrome. They found all the chinese cam and lifter blanks they bought were inproperly chilled which might be what Jake saw under ther microscope. Go to Comp cams web site and check it out.
They now have cam and lifters cast correctly in the USA but not for ACVW. I bet the Chinese told Comp Cams they were not going to make good on thier crap work.

The best machine work and metal treatments will not fixed improperly made cast iron. Comp Cams also sells the high pressure additive
package containing ZDDP for use with thier cam and lifters. The best made cast iron needs ZDDP and proper break in to survive.
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jakeddy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of which, I just ordered a bottle of Redline Oils Break-In Additive #81403 for the ZDDP.

I went ahead and ordered a set of CB lightweight lifters. I put a pencil to it by the time I sent the Scat's back to So Cal and bought the CB's from them I was ending up with a wash. I bought the lifters from CB for $30.00 less and their shipping was lower too. I'll ebay the Scat's and be ahead.


Last edited by jakeddy on Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had Lube A Lobes go bad after 1200 miles on a Scat C-45 cam.
I sent a set of Lub A Lobes to Steve Long Racing for the treatment and after 3000 miles on a Web 86C cam they look pretty good.
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borninabus
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

perrib wrote:
What valve spring pressures are you using? With the correct oil and mild cams lifter choice may not be a big deal even with questionable quality Chinese cast iron. Since the word got out about the correct oil to use there is a lot less reported cam / lifter failures.

I lost a known good set of lifters and a perfect 10 year old W130 cam in two days to no ZDDP being in the oil when the ZDDP was first removed from the oil.

Next I lost the Web version of an Engle VZ 30 cam and a set of Web lifters with Bradd Penn oil. Both the cam and the lifters started to pit in 2000 miles.

Enough was enough I bought 4 sets of Udos cam followers. I will be swapping cams in the next few months and will get to see how the first set has held up with another Web VZ 30 style cam for the last 4,000 miles. They are made from the material VW valve shims were made of which did not wear and could be reused.

Jake Raby has spent a lot of time investigating lifters and states the Scat lifter has large open pores in them when viewed under a microscope.

Competition Cams has spent a lot of money and time to fix the Chinese syndrome. They found all the chinese cam and lifter blanks they bought were inproperly chilled which might be what Jake saw under ther microscope. Go to Comp cams web site and check it out.
They now have cam and lifters cast correctly in the USA but not for ACVW. I bet the Chinese told Comp Cams they were not going to make good on thier crap work.

The best machine work and metal treatments will not fixed improperly made cast iron. Comp Cams also sells the high pressure additive
package containing ZDDP for use with thier cam and lifters. The best made cast iron needs ZDDP and proper break in to survive.

i use single HD springs.
i broke the engine in (1000 miles) on Delo 15-40.
i use Castrol 10-40 all year with lucas oil stabilizer.
FWIW
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just...man, another $400+? I've got close to $6500 into a little 1915 and have heard it run for 15 miles.

However, it's apart right now. If I spring for a set of Udo's lifters, should I change the cam again? It's brand new, but could it have gone south in that period of time with a bogus lifter?
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DarthWeber
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigurd wrote:
It's just...man, another $400+?


It is a chunk of money but, that is the last set of lifters you'll ever buy. No matter what cams you use or how many motors you build in the future, you'll have peace of mind you won't need to do a teardown for cam/lifter problems.
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Sigurd
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should I change out a cam that was broken in on different lifters?
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