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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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 Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Measure the lobes. If all the lobe lifts and durations are still at spec and the surface looks new you could reuse it if you really wanted. I don't think you will find that it is or really want to use a cam that did not break in properly. Is there anything else that could of caused your cam to fail wrong oil , no cam lube, no oil pressure when it started up, partially plugged cam oil galley, etc. |
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DarthWeber
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The cam is broken in (work hardened) so it's my understanding it will be OK with any new lifters, even Udo's. Udo is the absolute expert on this and he sometimes posts here, maybe he'll see this and confirm. |
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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I totally mis read his post. Thats the beauty of UDOs cam followers you can use them on as many good cams as you want. |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Why cant you silver solder a tool steel cap on a cast lifter and do the same thing as the Udo lifter, there might even be a shim for a motorcycle that might even be the right size. It would be like how they solder teeth on saw blades.
Earthquake
I probably just gave the million dollar idea
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smkn_vw
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2004
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a pic of Scat Lube-A-Lobe's I ran on a 2110 with an Engle 120 cam/Dual Springs/Berg 1.1:1 rockers after 10,000 miles. Maybe these lifters are more compatible with less spring pressure like someone mentioned earlier or other cams. Ask me if I would buy these again, no way. I'm glad I opened up the motor after hearing about the lifter issues. These were purchased new in 2004.
Last edited by smkn_vw on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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grimace007
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2006
Posts: 2673
Location: swampville, florida
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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with engle cams i have used/had and heard of great sucess using
febi/bilstein lifters.
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68 sedan
Dallas Air Coolers
| perrib wrote: |
Hey It is The Samba where well thought out rational answers can take a while and getting side tracked is normal. I was just lucky this time.  |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7389
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thats how mine looked smkn VW. A couple of good ones, but mostly really nasty ones!!!
I used dual springs as well on a daily driver-my engine was well taken care of too.
I would not use the crappy Scat lifters. I learned my lesson once the hard way and do not want to re-live that. |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17284
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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My Scat lifters pitted the same way.
I had an FK-8 with 40hp rockers to ease up on the lifters during break-in. Didn't help, after less than 5k miles, ¼" was gone from one lobe.
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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I've been bitten using Scats. Statistically on many forums you will see more frowns and experiences in turning stomachs using "splats".
If you use them you are either brave or believe statistics are inaccurate.
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CombatBus
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Joined: October 17, 2009
Posts: 307
Location: reno
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Udo.B.
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Iserlohn/Germany
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquake wrote: |
Why cant you silver solder a tool steel cap on a cast lifter and do the same thing as the Udo lifter, there might even be a shim for a motorcycle that might even be the right size. It would be like how they solder teeth on saw blades.
Earthquake
I probably just gave the million dollar idea |
that is a good idea , but i think at the end you have the same price and there is no way to do this , too different material
Udo
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| For now, my stuff looks new. A cam is what, $75? Also, I had oil pressure before it fired. I cranked for about a minute with cam lube on the lobes, plugs out, and rockers off. Light went out, and I put things back together and cranked in 10 second increments until it fired (I had fuel delivery issues). Also had Brad Penn 30w break-in oil for both break-in and the subsequent change. So I don't think I abused it. It's just got Scat lifters. |
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Alan_U
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sigurd wrote: |
| For now, my stuff looks new. A cam is what, $75? Also, I had oil pressure before it fired. I cranked for about a minute with cam lube on the lobes, plugs out, and rockers off. Light went out, and I put things back together and cranked in 10 second increments until it fired (I had fuel delivery issues). Also had Brad Penn 30w break-in oil for both break-in and the subsequent change. So I don't think I abused it. It's just got Scat lifters. |
Scats typically look beautiful for the first several thousand miles. I'm confident to say the oil used is meaningless since it does not modify the material of the lifter.
You can use the most expensive Ester/PAO synthetic oil with phenominal film strength. This will not prevent pitting.
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11.92sec pump gas true daily driver. Who says it cant be done.
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neil68
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007
Posts: 3440
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject: re-using lifters |
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| perrib wrote: |
| Thats the beauty of UDOs cam followers you can use them on as many good cams as you want. |
There's another excellent brand of lifters called Wizemann (pronounced Vitz-a-mon, for those of you who don't speak German). They were made in Germany years ago...and could also be used over and over with different camshafts. They pop up in the classifieds once in a while...I still have an old used set that I'm keeping for another future motor (you might have to machine the lifter bores for lobe clearance on big cams).
I have a set of Udo's as well, which didn't require bore clearancing for the Web 86C lobes...
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perrib
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2004
Posts: 3402
Location: Chandler, Az
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Another nice thing about Udo's cam followers. I changed the bad cam and lifters fired it up let it idle, set the timing and went for a ride. |
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sleef
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2009
Posts: 16
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:33 am Post subject: |
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hey just a question about cam follower manufacture: is it possible to induction harden the face of the cast iron lifters much like how machine beds ( lathes and mills etc ) are hardened to reduce wear?.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_hardening
Cheers Frank
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Should I actually change out the cam itself, though? |
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scott s
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1122
Location: Rock Hell, SC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| Sigurd wrote: |
It's just...man, another $400+? I've got close to $6500 into a little 1915 and have heard it run for 15 miles.
However, it's apart right now. If I spring for a set of Udo's lifters, should I change the cam again? It's brand new, but could it have gone south in that period of time with a bogus lifter? |
I thought the same thing; "$400 for lifters!!?" But after TWO rebuilds, that $400 starts to make financial sense.
I had an FK-8 with SCAT lifters. The lifters pitted BADLY looked like crap.
Bought some SLR treated lifters and an FK-87. Those lifters also pitted and took out the cam.
Bought some Udo's lifters. No more problems. Two cars, two engines, no more flat cams or pitted lifters.
IMO, $400 was cheaper than another rebuild.
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scott s
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1122
Location: Rock Hell, SC
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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One thing about Udo's lifters, though....I had one experience of the pushrod tips mushrooming, causing excessive clearance. Manton pushrods with hardened tips cured that problem. Just and FYI.
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| I've already got those waiting to go in. Do you think I should change out the camshaft if I switch to Udo's lifters? |
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