Z bed?

microbuser · Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject: Z bed?

I have a 70 deluxe with both rear and middle benches. In the local junk yard there is a 68 westy with a nice bed in it. I am thinkin about pulling the bed and temporarily install it in my bus to go camping and to VW shows. Is there another way to get my rear bench to fold into a bed. What exactly is a Z bed? I would love to camp in my bus. Thanks.

TRN9 · Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject:

Where in Humboldt are you?
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SGKent · Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

There are two hinges like this and they turn the back into a bed. The DelMar Retro bed is a copy and currently under production. If you look long and hard you can find a Z-bed. The Del Mar bed is about double what a NOS Z-bed will cost you. I have a spare used one but it is promised once I get it cleaned up and any broken welds fixed. If you have a middle seat you will also need to buy or fabricate brackets liks the L shaped one to the right of the hinge in the photo.

http://shop.delmarretro.com/main.sc
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enjoispammy8 · Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:59 am Post subject:

a westy bed is NOT a z-bed.

which means the bed you are talking about in the 68 westy would be a westy bed

oh karl, how you are missed.
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SGKent · Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:

Anchovy · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject:

Bookwus · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject:

Hiya SGK,

Desertbusman · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject:

webwalker · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject:

So who is the Euro doing the repop? Is he selling here? How does the price compare once you factor in shipping?

The DelMar guys are selling there for the equivalent weight in gold.

M
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Bookwus · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject:

Hiya web,

The going price is about $300US. Dunno about the shipping to the States.

Take a look at......................

http://www.camperstuff.co.uk/Site/Home.html
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webwalker · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject:

Even at a steep shipping rate, I'd be more inclined to go with the UK bed, as the California Retro-bed would still cost to get it to me here on the east coast. And the Brits have a passion for bays that I wish would rub off on folks here. I wonder what the clever boys at Del Mar would say to a little competition?

M
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

webwalker · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject:

I just dropped a note to DelMar asking what their product brings to the table to justify a 42% markup over the UK clone, and a 70% markup over NOS.

I'll be fascinated by their answer...IF they answer.

M
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

SGKent · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject:

I have spoken to Jim at Del Mar retro bed several times while he was designing the unit. I know he has a small fortune in making them. The dies are where the cost is. www.delmarretro.com
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

SGKent · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject:

I might add this. A year ago we had an opportunity to discuss buying Tim's dies and reproducing the Z-Bed. Ron Salmon did too from what I have been told. I did a survey of people who sell bus parts and the general feeling was that maybe over the next ten years 300 kits could be sold - and that was at a $275 price. These folks who are making these will only make money on them if they make them in china and none of us want that until the chinese start buying up our buses for mega$$. Right now they are buying gold but they should buy VW buses and they'd have more fun.

Last - I am told that Tim felt 500 to 1,000 pieces NOW would be needed to justify the aggravation of producing the Z-bed again. So the price of the Del Mar bed seems reasonable to me. The UK one looks kinds funky.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

webwalker · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:30 pm Post subject:

Yea, I've looked at fabrication myself and run away screaming at the cost of startup.

Still the question is out there. $420? or $295? for what appears to be the same product.

M
_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

SGKent · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:58 pm Post subject:

webwalker · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject:

"Appears to be"

You quote me accurately. Thank you. Smile

I'm not driving at getting the parts on the cheap. (Do you really think HVW would give a damn about a bay? They haven't featured a bay in so long I can't even REMEMBER when.) Nor am I asserting that one is better made.

I'm merely pointing out that it is a hell of a big discrepancy. I can buy a serpentine belt system for my Bug from BMD or Scat. Price difference is not huge, but not trivia ($60). Why does Scat get that much more for their product?

The guys at DelMar may be straight shooters; you known them, I don't. When there is a big difference in price for similar product, there is usually a reason. I'm digging for the reason, not for where the bodies are buried. Smile

_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image

SGKent · Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:

tubdub · Samba Member Joined: March 29, 2004 Posts: 2274

there is a set in the classifieds that were posted last night. also there is a guy on earlybay.com username ddfrost who remakes them from a set i sent him a couple of years ago

webwalker · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:49 am Post subject:

Steve,

To put it in context, I was desperate enough for a true Zbed that I was willing to pay the DelMar price.

You are correct, my callout of the price discrepancy is based on my opinion (which you clearly heard coming through in my tone) but the dollar figures are a fact.

In my experience, the quality delta between the most expensive unit and the next lower tier is usually the narrowest, but the quality delta between the middle tier and the 'cheapest' is huge. (Most Vdubbers feel a compulsion for cheapest. I don't.) Having only been privileged to see mere pictures of each product, perhaps I'm talking out of my tailpipe.

But the empirical question of Value (V=Quality / Availability) isn't one that can be determined by pictures or relationships. If a product is overpriced, and there is sufficient demand, a competitor will do as good or better for less $$. If a product is produced and appears to be overpriced and there isn't sufficient demand, no competitor will emerge...which means the original wasn't overpriced; it was marketed at a price point that the niche market would pay or it will die on the vine.

But enough of my economic theories. Smile

I'm not in a position to criticize your industry peers on the price of their product; I'm just a peon consumer trying to understand markups for niche products from two different providers on two different continents. You clearly have the advantage of me, being both acquainted with one of the parties, and more local to the scene. I'm forced to make my conclusions based on what I read here and in other forums. Which is how I got to poking my nose in to this in the first place. Sad

_________________
"Consistent maintenance with quality products is the cheapest warranty you'll ever need."
1977 CE1 Transporter Deluxe, Subaru EJ22, Skills Cooling, Steedle HD 091 w/ GuardT .82 4th
Click to view image


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