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Without Guesswork series of booklets
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rtroy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Without Guesswork series of booklets Reply with quote

Hi All,

Quite a few of us are interested in the Without Guesswork series. In this thread we are working together to find out more about the series.

For those unfamilliar:

The Without Guesswork series is a set of related publications which can be thought of as supplements to the factory workshop manuals and technical bulletins. They contain basic specifications, running tolerances, wear limits, dimensions, weights and other technical information aimed at helping the service technician at effecting a proper repair or other service.

They are not infallible, but should be considered a primary reference for the information contained therein.

What We Know is listed below. On the following post - the first reply to this forum entry - is listed every version of these documents known to The Samba membership. If you know of more or can fill in the gaps of our understanding, your contributions are greatly appreciated. I will try and keep the reply page fully updated so reading the whole thread is unnecessary.

This thread is also a good place to tell us about known errors or point out other interesting tid-bits.

Remaining Questions: There are a few "big picture" questions about them which we may never know but which we would also like to find answers for. For example, when did these begin? These types of questions are also spelled out in the first reply post, and if you have any of your own, let me know and I'll add them to the list of open questions.

What can YOU provide:
    * We are interested in knowing, for each version of these documents:
      + Date Printed (Month and year)
      + Full title and any sub-titles - please look at examples
      + Color or other distinguishing feature of the cover

    * We would also like to have a full copy entered in to our technical section here on The Samba. Presently, you can find them with: Technical -> Manuals -> Miscellaneous Manuals & Instructions. Please don't forget to help us update this thread if you upload your contributions to our collection!
    *When a copy is not available in our technical manuals section, an image would be nice.

Please take a look at the data, consider what's missing and your sources are and provide whatever input you can! Please note that a great many people who may have knowledge of other books in this series are not likely to see this request; please take a moment to solicit information from friends and other sources and get it back to us here!

Thank you for contributing to our knowledge,
RT
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Last edited by rtroy on Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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rtroy
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: List of currently known "Without Guesswork" books Reply with quote

"Without Guesswork" books Currently Known to The Samba:

NOTE: I will try to edit this list as replies come in so you don't have to read the whole thread to know what we already know!

    1956, March, "service without guesswork", dark blue

    1958, January, "service without guesswork", olive drab

    1959, January, "service without guesswork", red, Image, front cover:http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/in2vws_com/theSamba/IMG_5970.jpg, and rear cover:
    http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa28/in2vws_com/theSamba/IMG_5971.jpg


    1960, January, "service without guesswork", yellow

    1961, January, "1 service without guesswork", light green, Full Copy Here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/61guesswork.php

    1961, January, "2 service without guesswork", light blue

    1963, October, "1 service without guesswork", light green

    1962, January, "2 service without guesswork", brown

    1963, January, "2 service without guesswork", dark green

    1964, January, "2 service without guesswork", orange

    1964, January, "3 service without guesswork", yellow, Full Copy Here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/without_guesswork_type3_january_1964.php

    <unknown date>, "3 service without guesswork", purple

    1965, March, "1965 service Without Guesswork", light blue, Full Copy Here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/1965withoutguesswork.php

    <unknown date>, "1966 service Without Guesswork", red

    <unknown date>, "1968 service Without Guesswork", yellow-green

    <unknown date>, "1969 service Without Guesswork Type 1, 2, and 3", green

    1969, August, <unknown title>, orange

    1970, December, "1971 service Without Guesswork Type 1, 2, 3 and 4"
    "(Only for vehicles from Model Year 1971.)", blue

    <unknown date>, "1972 service Without Guesswork", white with gold C

    <unknown date>, "1973 service Without Guesswork", white with gold C

    <unknown date>, "1973 service Without Guesswork", white with blue C

    <unknown date>, "1971 1972 1973 service Without Guesswork Types 1, 2, 3, and 4", green

    <unknown date>, "1971 through 1974 service Without Guesswork Types 1, 2, 3, and 4"
    "USA and Canada", red, Image:http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/without74.jpg

    <unknown date>, "Without Guesswork Types 1, 2, 4 and 48 1975", green with black C

    <unknown date>, "Without Guesswork Types 1, 2 and 4 1975", green with black C


Open questions:

    When did the Without Guesswork series begin? (Earliest known to date: March, 1956)

    Was there a predecessor publication and if so what was its name?

    When did the series end? (Youngest known to date: 1975)

    Is there a modern replacement for new vehicles and if so, what is it called?

    When was the industrial engine removed from these documents and is there a replacement or other source of similar information for them?

.
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Last edited by rtroy on Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:38 am; edited 12 times in total
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were printed yearly, and discontinued entirely in 1974. This is when VW made the deal with Bentley to be "The Official" manual for VW. This is also the first year that VW produced a water cooled. The mechanics in the shops hated that.
No more big blue shop manuals, and no more Without Guesswork books.

I have a pretty good collection of these books also. I scored some on Ebay a week or so ago. I know some are duplicates of what I already have. Maybe we can do some trading.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324750

the earliest one i have is from 1956.

some of the others i have:
top to bottom, left to right:
march 1956, january 1958, january 1959
january 1960, january 1961, january 1961
january 1961, january 1962, january 1963
1966, 1968, 1969
1971 1971/1972/1973
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Just Ordered a 69 Without Guesswork to ad to my Library/Knowledge! Exclamation
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 1970 copy (printed 8/69) with an orange cover.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

73sports wrote:
I have a 1970 copy (printed 8/69) with an orange cover.


Great, I've added it - except, we don't know the proper title. Note that the one before and the one after have different titles on the cover. What's the cover on this one say, please?

Tnx,
RT
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of mine:
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Full listing of what I currently own:
1958, January, Service without guesswork, light blue
1959, January, Service without guesswork, red
1961, January, 1 Service without guesswork, light green
1961, January, 2 Service without guesswork, light blue
1962, January, 2 Service without guesswork, light red
1963, February, 3 Service without guesswork, purple
1963, October, 1 Service without guesswork, light green
1964, January, 3 Service without guesswork, yellow
1965, March, 1965 Service without guesswork, blue
1966, January, 1966 Service without guesswork, red
1966, August, 1966 Service without guesswork, green
1967, August, 1968 Service without guesswork, yellow
1968, August, 1969 Service without guesswork Types 1, 2 and 3, green
1969, February, 1969 Servicio a la milesima Tipo 4, gray
1969, August, 1970 Service without guesswork Types 1, 2, and 3, orange
1969, August, 1970 Service without guesswork Type 4, grey
1970, December, 1971 Service without guesswork Types 1, 2, 3,and 4, blue
1971, October, 1971 and 1972 Service without guesswork Types 1, 2, 3,and 4, orange
1972, March, 1960 through 1970, Service Without Guesswork Type 1,2 and 3, yellow
1974, March, 1971 through 1974 Service without guesswork Types 1, 2, 3 and 4, red
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Automatic Troubleshooting Guide
1-1965
1-1960 thru 1970
2-1966
1-1968
2-1970
2-1971,1972,1973
3-1971
2-1971,1972

I have others in the shop that I did not dig out.
I notice that Hazetguy has a 1966 with a red cover, and mine are teal blue.
And did Glenn beat me out on that 1971 thru 1974 on Ebay the other day?? Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

12/3/09 Moved to the Accessories Forum and turned into a Sticky so more people will see it.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good idea code
i will dig mine out tonight and post it up here
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rtroy wrote:
73sports wrote:
I have a 1970 copy (printed 8/69) with an orange cover.


Great, I've added it - except, we don't know the proper title. Note that the one before and the one after have different titles on the cover. What's the cover on this one say, please?

Tnx,
RT


It's 1970 Without Guesswork Type 1,2 and 3
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my Oct. 1961 type 3

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a list of the copies I have in my collection:

“Without Guesswork” pocket guides that I own:

1957 Jan blue/green
1961 Jan Type 1 (two) pale green
1961 Jan Type 2 pale blue
1962 Jan Type 2 (two) light brown
Porsche 1963 Jan specs
1963 Oct Type 1 (three) pale green
1965 Mar blue
1966 Aug blue/green
1967 Aug (two) pale green
1969 Aug T1,2&3 (two) orange 1970 (one with a poor cover)
1970 Dec T1,2,3&4 (two) blue 1971-on
1971 Oct T1,2,3&4 (two) orange 1971 and 1972
1971 Dec T1,2&3 (four) yellow 1960 thru 1970
1972 Oct T1,2,3&4 (two) green 1971, 1972, 1973
1974 Mar T1,2,3&4 (two) red 1971 thru 1974

I'd be interested in trade of my multiples for copies that I don't have that you might have duplicates of. Just let me know!


Bill Bowman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread, thanks for the info.

I've been interested in these ever since I first heard about them, but had never seen one. Then last year one of my uncles, who served his apprenticeship at Wolfsburg, gave me one. I was surprised to see how small it was. Now I learn from this thread that it is the earliest known edition, from March 1956! Now I'm on the look-out for more.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a '68 one that you can have free if you make a $10 donation to this site... Wink




http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=701084
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

“Without Guesswork” pocket guides in my personal literature collection. First column is year/month, second column is models if listed, third column is how many in my collection, fourth column is a color description, and fifth column is years applicable if listed.

1957 Jan blue/green
1961 Jan Type 1 (two) pale green
1961 Jan Type 2 pale blue
1962 Jan Type 2 (two) light brown
Porsche 1963 Jan specs
1963 Oct Type 1 (three) pale green
1965 Mar blue
1966 Aug blue/green
1967 Aug (two) pale green
1969 Aug T1,2&3 (two) orange 1970 (one with a poor cover)
1970 Dec T1,2,3&4 (two) blue 1971-on
1971 Oct T1,2,3&4 (two) orange 1971 and 1972
1971 Dec T1,2&3 (four) yellow 1960 thru 1970
1972 Oct T1,2,3&4 (two) green 1971, 1972, 1973
1974 Mar T1,2,3&4 (two) red 1971 thru 1974


If anyone has one that I don't have and wants one that I have extras of, I might be open to a trade...

Bill Bowman
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Thornton VW - Stockton

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to own this one, wonder how many languages were these made for (German, English, Spanish, French, Italian?, ...) .

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

March 1956:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And I picked up this 1974 this weekend:
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